North Dakota First State to Pass Personhood Amendment


Many people believe that the pro-life movement is just about abortion, but there is so much more to it than that.  If you believe that human life begins at conception, then there are other issues that you need to consider.  In today’s world of high tech medicine and research, you also have issues such as cloning, animal-human hybrids, euthanasia, assisted suicide, stem cell research and eugenics.

This brings the issue down to the legal recognition of human life and when that human life begins.  Some say it begins when you can hear the heart beating, but that can vary from individual to individual.  Others argue that the unborn is a human when it is developed enough to survive on its own outside the womb.  However, that argument falls short since a number of infants are born with life-threatening conditions that can be easily corrected with surgery after being born and others require life-saving procedures into their adult life.

This is where Personhood USA enters the picture.  They believe that human life begins at conception and should be protected from that moment on.  Planned Parenthood considers Personhood USA one of their major adversaries in the abortion fight.  They not only are actively involved in the abortion controversy but in the other issues listed above.

It appears the efforts of Personhood USA have been paying off in North Dakota.  Both houses of the state legislature have passed a personhood amendment that will be placed on the 2014 general ballot. The amendment states that human life begins at conception and that from that moment on is protected under the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution which states:

“Section 1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

To preserved the sanctity of human life between now and the 2014 ballot, both houses of the North Dakota legislature are preparing a bill that would criminalize performing an abortion in their state.  Republican Governor Jack Dalrymple has not indicated if he would sign the bills if passed or not.

Hoepfully, Dalrymple will sign the bills when they come across his desk and the Peace Garden State will become a land of peace for unborn humans in the future.  If you live in North Dakota, contact your state legislators and Gov. Dalrymple and urge them to pass the bills to criminalize abortion.  Then urge all of your family and friends to vote in favor of the amendment when they vote in 2014.







Comments

comments

Posted in Abortion, Ethics, Family Tagged with: , , , , , , ,
  • Zero X

    I notice they left out one thing – the Death Penalty. Although I am a conservative, I oppose the Death Penalty, pretty much on the same grounds that I oppose abortion. I feel it is always better to err on the side of life. Also, in this day and age and with the current corrupt political and legal system which we are burdened with, I don’t think it is wise to give the Government permission to kill its citizens. I think keeping dangerous criminals confined and separate from the the mainstream of society until such time as they are no longer a threat, is the price we must pay for living in  a civilized society.

    • ThomasGentile

      Zero X I AM ALSO A CONSERVATIVE  . I  STRONGLY BELIEVE THE  DEATH  PENALTY  SHOULD  BE ENFORCED IN EVER STATE AND   THE  MURDER  SHOULD  NOT  HAVE TO  WAIT  NO  MORE THAN  THREE  YEARS BEFORE  THE SENTENCE IS CARRIED OUT .!  NO IF’S  AND’S  PR  BUT’S  > NO EXCEPTIONS  .

      • Stephen1015

        ThomasGentile Zero X I suppose that it never occurred to you that some of the people on death row are there because they were wrongly convicted.   Besides, I think that life imprisonment is a better thing than possibly executing an innocent adult.   Let’s take a look at the incident mentioned in the Bible where (lying through his teeth, the Amalekite told the successor to the throne that he had killed the current monarch).

      • donalde

        ThomasGentile Zero X  i don’t know where zero gets his imfo  but  juiors make that call not the government. its a proven fact that their is less murders with a death penatly than with out  i favor sinapore law you get a trail if found guildy you get a retrail  an if convicted agin you go straight out an killed then an their. been their safer there than any where else in south east asia

      • nmgene

        ThomasGentile Zero X I have no problem with the death penalty but I do have a problem with crooked cops and Prosecuters. They dont care if you are innocent they just want to win there case and will even break the law to convict someone. It just happened in a murder trial this week where the Prosecuter did not release some of the evidence to the court or the defense. Any Prosecuter caught doing this should recieve the death sentence!!!!!!!!!!

    • danlion88

      Zero XThe death penalty is rooted in respect for innocent human life.  God instigated it from the beginning; human life is so valued that if I deliberately take someone else’s, I should lose my own.  I forfeit my own right to live by murdering someone.  It also doesn’t hurt to mention that the death penalty deters crime and those who are sentenced and put to death will not reenter society to kill again.
      There is a huge difference between punishing a convicted murderer and killing an innocent child.  Unlike the murderer, the child has committed no crime, no jury has found him guilty, and he is not being executed by the state.  He is innocent and being put to death by a private and subjective decision.  The real hypocrites are the ones who oppose the death penalty for those who rape, torture, and kill innocent people and yet support the killings of millions of innocent, unborn babies who have done nothing wrong.

      • DrEvil

        danlion88 Zero X That’s what we need, a jury to decide if you can have an abortion and it must be 100% agree.

        • donalde

          DrEvil danlion88 Zero X no what we need is to decide when ababy is a human. that is all we need to do. the rest will take care of it self.

      • DavidCole1

        danlion88 Zero X God instituted the death penalty for the Israelites in the Old Testament.  Last I checked, we are not the Israelites and this is not the Old Testament.

    • DavidCole1

      Zero X Agree.
      I used to be in favor of the Death Penalty but it turns out that over the years many innocent people have been convicted wrongly and put to death.  In my opinion, one is too many and giving the state this much power imposes god-like qualities on them that they do not possess – juries and judges are fallible people, after all.  So I agree – pro life should be across the board.  No abortion, no euthanizing, and no death penalty.

      • donalde

        DavidCole1 Zero X is ever one stupit about this? the goverment dose not decide this a juior does. do you know what that is?  could be me you an others  an i don.t want to pay to keep a munder feed healty an watching ty an on couputer on my dollar

        • DavidCole1

          donalde DavidCole1 Zero X So you’re asserting then that no jury has ever wrongly convicted someone, ever?  Is that true?  Suppose it happened even just one time – is it worth it to you that one innocent person dies so that we don’t have to feed and house killers?  How about two?  If you do the research, you’ll see it’s been considerably more than this.  So I guess it boils down to how many innocent people we are willing to allow to be wrongly convicted and sentenced to death so that we don’t have to house and feed truly guilty ones.  I’d prefer to err on the side of housing and feeding the guilty over wrongly killing even one person.

        • Jim Kremsreiter

          DavidCole1 donalde Zero X Besides what’s wrong with letting the guilty sit in a cell, look at bars all day, and think about the crappy life they got because of their crimes?  I say “Let ‘em stew in their own juices for as long as possible!”

        • MichaelSSmith

          Jim Kremsreiter UDavidCole1 donalde Zero X  I am a  Liberal Democrat who is   pro capital punishment but we should be 1000% certain before we  execute anyone that they are guilty   I would rather see a guilty peson get off then have one inocent  person executed by mistake

    • Fideux

      Zero X I would buy into the life in prison under the following conditions. 1) It is actually for life with no acceptions. 2) the individule is in lockdown 24/7 with no privileges; color TVs conjugal visits, libraries, excercise rooms,etc. that make those prisons more lick country clubs with no acceptions. 3) the prisoners only get simple food and water, no acceptions.
      They are there as a form of punishment. If rehab was so beneficial, why do so many prisoners end up back in incarceration. Why not indeed; many of them live a better life on our dime than they had on the outside.

      • nmgene

        Fideux Zero X  You are 100% correct!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • BBRebozo

      Many brutal crimes that were committed by inhuman monsters deserve the death penalty, but there have been cases where that person was not the monster as thought but someone else was that monster, that is why I have a problem with it. I used to have faith in our system but over the years there have been convictions that seem to border on a quota, just convict anyone so we can close the books. This has surfaced with DNA testing, I read a story that took place in Chicago more than twenty years ago, where the cops did this to an innocent man and later it was found out that certain evidence was held from the jurors such evidence would have proved his innocence, and the sad thing is those law enforcement people seemingly never punished.

    • Zero X

      To all who agree with me, thanks!
      To all those who disgree with me, may I remind you who is in charge of the Department of Justice and just how “disappointing” recent verdicts from the Supreme Court have been.
      Believe as you wish, but I honestly feel that our government, from the local cops and D.As. all the way up to the President and the Supreme Court are too corrupt to be trusted with the power to kill its citizens.

  • JoeZimmerman

    YEA    for   N.D.   good  people  up  there  ,,,,

    • ThomasGentile

      JoeZimmerman WHEN I  PUSH  THE  LIKE  .  TAB  IT COMES UP UNLIKE  ,  WHO IN THE  HELL IS PLAYING GOD  IN THEIR

      • BBRebozo

        It simply means you can change your mind, lets say you made a mistake; you can unlike that poster, that’s  how I see it.LOL

      • JoeZimmerman

        ThomasGentile JoeZimmerman 
        Fear   not   all is  well  !!!!!!!!!!!

  • donalde

    i have lived an worked i N.D. fine place  an god bless them on this. ero their has to be a deturence to murder please no slap on the hands an say WE will take care of you till you die.  have you took leave of your senses?  no longer a threat how do you determine   that? may be i should say who?

    • JoeZimmerman

      donalde 
      Looks  like  the  people  there  respect  life  of  the  unborn  ,,,,,,,,,,

  • DrEvil

    This does open a can of worms. If a person can prove their child was conceived in ND, can that child claim citizenship even if born outside of the US to non-citizens?

    • ThomasGentile

      DrEvil I AM  SURE  THAT THEY  HAVE THAT AREA  COVERED .

  • ThomasGentile

    IT SEEMS  THAT  THEIR ARE  MORE  INTELLIGENT  AMERICANS  IN THAT  STATE  PER CAPITA ! GREAT  FORESIGHT . ALL THE STATES  NEED TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER  . UNFORTUNATELY  OUR  COUNTRY  HAS  BECOME  SO MULTI FOREIGN NATIONAL   THAT > THAT WILL NEVER  HAPPEN IN ALL THE  STATES .   I   CAN FORESEE IN YEATS TO  COME A BREAK UP  OF OUR COUNTRY’S  STATES  /   A  SOCIALIST  MULTI NATIONAL SOCIETY   IS WHAT WE ARE  BECOMING AND  THIS  TYPE  OF  SOCIETY   AS YOU ALREADY  KNOW WILL NEVER WORK . . ALL  I CAN SAY IS GOD BLESS AMERICA .  AND  PRAY  AMERICANS  PRAY !

  • SFS444

    I beleive in free will, just like god intended for us. Let the women of this country vote for or against, its their bodies. I do however agree that there should be a point where we protect the inoccent life of a child in the womb. But Obama should’ve been an abortion so cannot say I am against it. Let there be freewill and let GOD sort them out.

    • TruePatriot

      SFS444 I believe life prevails over a woman’s “right” to do to their bodies what they wish. That excuse doesn’t really fly, it’s one that was made up by the left and of course it took hold. There are so many forms of birth control out there that there is no reason for a female to become pregnant, even in rape. I am not trying to knock anyone down, just stating fact. The only time a female should become pregnant while on birth control is because the kind she is taking just doesn’t work for her. I really wish people would research exactly how many abortions take place every year and then compare those to actual rape and pregnancies that were a result of not using birth control. I think they would be suprised.

    • MichaelSSmith

      SFS444  You are a jerk for saying that about our great President

      • Bullfeathers

        MichaelSSmith SFS444 HA  HA HA HA

      • JoeZimmerman

        MichaelSSmith SFS444 
        Your   president  is  a  pile  of  pig   sh-t ,,,

      • sumpplrstupid

        MichaelSSmith SFS444 ….well keep your idiot president to yourself….he is not mine!……your comment should have read…”you are great for saying that about our jerk president”……somehow that seems more appropriate!

  • DavidCole1

    I think we can all agree on this when it comes to abortion – we are all, every one of us, glad that our own mothers didn’t choose to have one.

  • grriverajr

    There are those, even of good intention, that still have a problem with the death penalty as well as abortion.  One should always remember that an abortion and a death sentance result in the end of a life, yet that is where all similarity ends.  To place the two in the same jar is not unlike considering what a loving married couple do in their bedroom is the same as a brutal gang rape in an alley.  They both involve sex, right?  Aren’t they the same?  Not hardly.  The proper reading of one particular Commandment is Thou Shall Not MURDER.  That’s right – the proper translation is Murder, not Kill.  A trial, a judgement, a sentance and the death of the offender is not a murder, it is a lawful killing.  The vaccuming of small body parts torn from a womb is a murder.  It cannot be more clear, as those in Northg Dakota realise.

  • grumpyoldconservative

    I’ve always wondered how they can prosecute someone for manslaughter of an unborn child in a traffic accident but seem OK if that same mother “chooses” to end it’s life in a Planned Parenthood facility. Either way, a human dies.

    • sumpplrstupid

      grumpyoldconservative Thank you for your “common sense” attitude……not only does one human life come to an end….but any future offspring for countless generations to come….I was born prematurely and spent the first two months of my life in an incubator some 60 years ago…..if my mother had aborted me, all my children and grandchildren would not be alive……

  • HawaiiJohn

    I’m proud ton say that my Paternal Grandfather Homesteaded in the North-West corner of North Dakota, near Williston, in a small dot-on-the-map called Trenton. He raised his large family, including my Dad, as God Loving Citizens of our wonderful country; cattlemen, wheat farmers, dairyman, and Cartographic Engineer, who mapped our nation. oh that we could look around our Nation and find such men in our society today. It is not a quirk that this Personhood Amendment would originate in that State…it reflects the basic core beliefs of those who we call our Founding Fathers in our United States of America…the very beliefs that are so obviously missing in so much of our society today. God Help Us if we are to continue to exist as a Nation…(:-))

  • rchguns

    The Judicial System Has Become a Joke.
    I understand this is getting away from the discussion of abortion and the protection of the unborn. But I believe this discussion is just as important if not more so. In the country today murder and the punishment for the crime is for sale. If you have enough money and celebrity status you get away with it. Case in point O.J. Simpson.

    I can understand why some people are against the death penalty but I also believe that these people have not given enough thought to the conviction. The death penalty is there for only one reason and reality and that is to act as a deterrent to prevent people from committing crimes that are punishable by that penalty. I judicial system has clouded the waters as to what constitutes an offense punishable by death. Right now in the news everyone is aware of the push for gun control. Gun control only affects legal and law abiding citizens. There is a problem inherent with gun control. There is a solution but whether or not there are enough people with brains to see it remains to be seen. There is a solution: Anyone committing a felony while in the possession of a firearm and convicted of that crime receives a mandatory 25 year sentence with no parole. Anyone who discharges a weapon in the commission of a felony upon conviction receives a life sentence without possibility of parole at 50 years. Anyone who should someone in the commission of a felony whether or not they die or not automatically upon conviction Get the Death Penalty. As it stands now the death penalty is a joke at best we have people on death row will been there for 10 years or more and many of them are living better than they were before they went to jail. I know this because I work in correctional institutions and saw firsthand how useless that is. When you’re convicted of a capital crime meaning murder, or violence committed upon a child primarily rape, and the violent rape of any individual no matter what age. Upon the conviction and the sentence of death that individual will have one and only one appeal and that appeal must come within eight months of the conviction. If that appeal is unsuccessful that person is to be put to death within four months no longer. That means a person convicted and sentenced to death will have 12 months before sentence is carried out no longer. The convicted will have the opportunity to choose the method of execution there are only two. 1) is death by hanging, not using hangman’s noose that was meant to snap a person’s neck causing almost instantaneous death. Or 2) being placed in a Plexiglas tube just large enough for the individual to fit in and in an upright position and have water slowly pried into the chamber at body temperature and a slow rate until the person drowns. This would be a deterrent but we shouldn’t stop there.

    Every execution should be broadcast on every network at prime time for all to see. Recordings of the execution should be shown in every high school, University, and college campus with a mandatory attendance of all students. Is this brutal it really is that’s the purpose to be a deterrent to show people what happens when you do something as heinous as these criminals do. Once these monsters see the end results of committing these crimes there will be fewer people willing to commit these crimes and are gangster rap culture will come to a screeching halt.

  • lizardmansc

    BRAVO Mr Sessions! BRAVO!

  • KeithCP

    excellent

  • sunshkid

    My only concern are the words “… and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, …”.  The jurisdiction is not of the government; it is of the mother until the child is born.  HOWEVER, that being said, the government DOES have jurisdiction over the mother, and if she terminates the child without good reason (i.e., her health or violation of her body), well, that is another matter entirely.

    • aradatateam

      sunshkid See, the pro choice people always have an out and that the language such as health of the mother.  Loophole is it could be physical health, emotional, phychological.

      • lizardmansc

        aradatateam sunshkid  
        Thinking people get it… Useful idiots don’t want to know… ignorance is bliss… for now.

        • sunshkid

          lizardmansc aradatateam sunshkid Correct.

      • sunshkid

        aradatateam I know that there are people that would look for such loopholes, but in my way of thinking, if they have mental health problems, that has NOTHING to do with “health” in the context I used the term.  She has emotional or psychological problems, that requires a shrink, nothing more.

        • Bullfeathers

          sunshkid aradatateam I’ve witnessed my sister and a sister-inlaw (who weren”t friends by the way) totally turn into wrecks =once pretty & nice -became low life scum bags–+ fat & ugly boozers,drugs too—abortions can take tolls far more serious than many know of..

      • MichaelSSmith

        aradatateam @sunshkid And what is wrong with that it should inclucde emotaional and psycologidal I am not for abortion when haveing a baby is an inconveniance that is you have 2  kids and  you do not want 3 or having a child will cost you more  money that I am opposed to and can see limits in that  area  but it shoud be permited in cases where the life of the mother is at risk or there is a serious heath risk like the  mother could go into a comma or  become a vegitable also it should be alowed where it  would be human to terminate the pregnency were the fetus   was seriously deformed  and also in cased of   rape but not after  about 3month or a the most 4.5 months except in certain  cased

  • aradatateam

    This is huge.  See if anyone else follows suit.

  • oldgreyandugly

    It’s abouit time one the 50 states takes a firm stand cvoncerning this most controversal subject.

    • MichaelSSmith

      oldgreyandugly I hope the law get overturned/repealed is ND a I& R state

  • ARMYOF69

    Finally, someone that has a heart .

  • carol Thomas

    Thank You North Dakota.Hopefully other states will do the same.Abortion is murder.

    • Sgt York

      carol Thomas i click like and it now shows dislike what gives

      • utahexplorer

        Sgt York carol Thomas  It gices you the option of changing your mind . You have said that you “like” and afterwords is shows “unlike” to show that you voted “like”.

  • RoscoeBonifitucci

    This is what the Founders of America were talking about.  This makes sense and should be Federal Law in spite of the Marxist Morons who are about trying to tear down America and remake into another Socialist craphole on the planet.  BRAVO North Dakota.  You have made America Proud!

  • Sgt York

    ND America salutes you

  • DaleNetherton

    This idea that prebirth is equivalent to birth is dangerous and morally ignorant. Assigning rights to that which cannot decide is the road to the obliteration of individual rights ( in this case the rights of the pregnant woman.)  This is a move to allow government to force women to give birth whether she wants a child or not.  Would a politician want to be forced to support a child with his own money?  Why should pregnant women be denied individual rights?  This law smells of religious interference with the law of the land.

    • David Veselenak

      DaleNetherton About all I have to say to Dale is that too bad his mother didn’t practice what he preached! We wouldn’t have to hear his secularist rhetoric! What the fool Dale doesn’t seem to comprehend is that he will suffer as well as those with opposing views under this Godless communist regime – good for him!

      • DaleNetherton

        David Veselenak DaleNetherton YOU are an individual and you have the right to life ,liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Why would you want to deny that right to a pregnant woman?

        • grriverajr

          DaleNetherton David Veselenak Hey, great obsevation!  I certainly would not want to get in the way of a bank robber’s happiness, or in the way of kids who are having their happiness infringed by an inconvenient elderly relative.  Abortion, euthanasia, what the heck – after all, our convenient happiness is all that matters, right?  Good observation!

    • ScottLast

      DaleNetherton Your questions are irrelevant if life begins at conception. The pregnant woman exercised her right to have the sex that conceived the living child. This happens with every child that has ever been born or not. Once a life has been started, our moral and constitutional responsibility is to allow that life to continue to its natural conclusion. It is never within the rights of anyone to terminate the life of another without a crime being committed. Anything less is barbaric and uncivilized.

      • DaleNetherton

        ScottLast DaleNetherton But life does not begin at conception.  Life begins at birth.  Read any tombstone..

        • mclark4430

          DaleNetherton ScottLast  ……………You are wrong. A tombstone doesn’t say  this persons life began on such and such a date. It says they are born on that date.

        • DaleNetherton

          mclark4430 DaleNetherton ScottLast Yes being born is the beginning of a human life.  It is the point where the infant is no longer dependent on the mother for awareness of the world.  At his point it is fully human.

        • DaleNetherton

          mclark4430 ScottLast Thank you.

        • ScottLast

          DaleNetherton ScottLast So that’s your authority on life? The tombstone?

        • DaleNetherton

          ScottLast DaleNetherton Authority on life?  Who needs an authority on life?  If you’re living you have a right to life.  Nobody has to authenticate it, especially some politician.  Their job is to uphold the Constitution, not try to destroy it.

      • kmilliorn

        ScottLast–Two groups of women/girls had no chance to exercise anything like a “right to have sex” (or not): those who got pregnant as the result of rape or incest.

        • grriverajr

          kmilliorn ScottLast It does not take long for the “rape and incest” chestnut to come out.  No one ever asks, “what is the ratio of rape and incest cases to just flat out birth control abortion?”  It is miniscule.  It is but a few grains of sand on the beaches of dead babies from the efforts of the Big Business Abortion Mills.  Yet it is ALWAYS front-and-center for the pro-abortion crowd.  And even then, I say yes, punish the rapist, whether a blood relative or not – but why give a death sentance to the child when you won’t give it to the rapist?  To make the question even more interesting, ask it of someone who was a result of a rape but was NOT aborted.  I think his or her perspective will be much different than yours.

    • JackBrake

      DaleNetherton  What has been “smelling” for far too long, Mr. “Nether” ton are the rotting corpses of the innocent, and the rotting indifference of the American people. Finally, someone has the courage to stand up to the children of the “Nether” world. Children who practice evil and are about their father’s work. – a father who was a liar and a murderer from the beginning.

      • DaleNetherton

        JackBrake DaleNetherton You equate innocent with unborn.  The issue is about the living and the rights of the individual which includes pregnant women.  Do you really think the government should force women to give birth if they don’t want to?

        • mclark4430

          DaleNetherton JackBrake ……….Abortion is murder and should be punished as such.

        • DaleNetherton

          mclark4430 DaleNetherton JackBrake Says you.  Murder is defined as the taking of life not a potential life.  Abortion is a distinct word that refers to the elimination of a fetus.  Changing the meaning of words is not being honest.

        • grriverajr

          DaleNetherton mclark4430 JackBrake Which is why ND put the definition at the moment of conception, to eliminate moral relativism.  To define it as anything else is the bastion of dishonesty, where anyone can be put to death for any reason at any age on the slippery slopes of of Mount Relavitism.

        • DaleNetherton

          grriverajr DaleNetherton mclark4430 JackBrake Putting the definition of human life at the moment of conception is pure dogma.  A human consciousness can function independently , a fetus cannot.

        • Evermyrtle

          DaleNetherton JackBrake My mother-in-law was about 6 months pregnant and for some reason she knew something was wrong with her pregnancy and decided to go to the doctor. After the exam he told her that he baby was dead and had to be delivered. After it was delivered they realized that the baby had been dead several days. That is what you call something in there without life.. Unless the baby “your fetus” dies it is alive, there is a heartbeat which the doctor can detect very early in the pregnancy, if the heart is beating,it is alive.

        • DaleNetherton

          Evermyrtle DaleNetherton JackBrake A beating heart is not a criteria for human life.  A brain dead patient on life support is legally dead.  Such a patient is unaware of existence just as the fetus.

    • skin

      DaleNetherton What is dangerous and morally ignorant is taking the life of another as a solution to a social problem!!!  Barbarian!  No Judge, No Jury, No Stay of Execution! Abortion – what a pathetic solution!  Where were you in Biology?  Save rape, incest and preservation of the Mother and perhaps a few others?  Abortion is a selfish, brutal solution to pregnancy!!! Abortion as birth control is pathetic!!!  Pregnancy will end in about 9 months and there are millions looking to adopt!  Take the high road! Give life a chance!

      • DaleNetherton

        skin DaleNetherton YOU are not taking a life but denying a living person ( the pregnant woman ) the right to liberty.  What is barbaric is promoting a government to force a woman to give birth.  You have individual rights , why deny them to a pregnant woman?

        • mclark4430

          DaleNetherton skin ………..Have you ever stopped to think about the unborn baby who is being cut to pieces. I think of him/her screaming in pain as the abortionist cuts the little arms and legs off. They feel the pain and how anyone can allow their baby the torture of abortion I cannot understand. If a pregnant woman doesn’t want the baby there are many people who have been on a long waiting list to adopt a baby.

        • DaleNetherton

          mclark4430 DaleNetherton skin An unborn baby is a fetus.  What about the pain of a pregnant woman who is forced against her will to give birth to a child she cannot afford?  The issue is about the pregnant woman’s right to decide.  Her liberty which the Constitution was created to protect for all living individuals.

    • 317david

      DaleNetherton You are a idiot liberal atheist evil person!!!!!

      • DaleNetherton

        317david DaleNetherton And you who doesn’t have an argument or even understood what I said evidently are only capable of smearing.

    • 317david

      DaleNetherton You are a idiot liberal atheist!!!!!!!!!

    • RhondaSams

      DaleNetherton Question she has the right to keep her clothes on and not have unprotected sex. There are other ways to keep from getting pregnant. pill, condoms, etc. but that is too inconvenient and when they get pregnant that is more of an inconvenience so let’s just get rid of it. Life begins at conception. I was 6 weeks pregnant, 4 weeks gestation when I had an ultrasound to find out if I was pregnant. We could see the heart beating, the arms, legs, head, and he was moving around. So what is that, life is what it is. You just want to split hairs because he is too small to survive.  But that does not change the fact that all the necessary elements were there including his heart.

      • DaleNetherton

        RhondaSams DaleNetherton Prevention of pregnancy requires perfect knowledge which is beyond human knowledge.  If mistakes are made there should be the ability to correct them.  That is the prerogative of the pregnant woman and or her doctor…not the government.

    • Evermyrtle

      DaleNetherton In this day and age, to get pregnant, while not wanting a child is totally a stupid thing to do. My oldest is almost 63 and I did not get pregnant until we could afford a baby. If we knew back then what to do, there is simply no excuse to get pregnant if you have the intelligence of a first grader.

      • JoeZimmerman

        Evermyrtle DaleNetherton 
        AMEN    thanks  for telling it  like  it  is   ,,,,,,,,,

      • DaleNetherton

        Evermyrtle DaleNetherton Not true.  There is still rape and failed contraceptives. Regardless a pregnant woman has the right to decide whether or not she wants to give birth…not some government goon.

        • Evermyrtle

          DaleNetherton Evermyrtle  I can see where you are coming from, and after such a horrible traumatic experience it would truly hard to think straight. I can’t imagine such horror but that child is not to blame for anything and you are killing it to pay it’s father back or to just get  rid of it all and I can see that, but that is still an innocent child and there are many people who  would give anything to get that baby.. .

    • grriverajr

      DaleNetherton Unfortunately, straw man argument will eventually fall. For those who erroneously feel (note – feel, not think) that birth is the beginning of human life because now the life is independent of the mother, make a huge mistake in logic extension. The infant IS NOT independent of the mother. If she walks away, the baby will soon die. So what is the definition? An extention of such logic is, when can the infant fend for itself? Until it can, when is the line drawn? You can abort until one year? Ten? Until the child in question has a job? And what about those who are elderly and need assistance to live? Can they be eliminated? Arbitrary assignment of humanity, such as you are not human until born, is a very fluid process. Just ask the followers of Sanger, such as Hitler. No, human life begins at the first division of a cell within a human ovum, and ends when the life process stills. Any other definition is simply a delusion, subject to the whim of the definer. If you do anything else, you end up with abortion mills putting living babies on shelves in broom closets until they die hours or days later.

      • DaleNetherton

        grriverajr DaleNetherton You make a leap that isn’t warranted.  The born child is not dependent on the mother to interpret what his senses are gathering.  He sees independently, he hears independently, he smells independently, he touches independently.  A fetus cannot do this and is dependent on what the mother sees , hears, touches or smells.  The rights of man are for those who can so these things and are not to be obliterated for things that cannot.  Just as the animal rights group try to obliterate rights by including those that don’t qualify , so to are the anti-abortionists who make a dogmatic claim that a born child is equivalent to a fetus.

        • Evermyrtle

          DaleNetherton grriverajr  A born is an ex-fetus, did you ever guess that? It has been proved that the unborn child feels pain. Did you ever see the picture where a “fetus”grabbed ahold of the physician’s finger while doing surgery on the mother. There are also pictures of a “fetus” sucking their thumbs. 
          Animals are considered by some to be animals, but I do not think that GOD does and when he gave HIS instruction, on how to live, what to do and what not to do, he was not referring to four footed animals.I don;t know about you, I consider myself one of those that GOD was speaking about.

        • DaleNetherton

          Evermyrtle DaleNetherton grriverajr Experiencing pain is not a condition of being human.  Being aware of the world outside the womb is.  Don’t speak for God if you can’t produce any evidence…which you can’t.

  • ErikOsbun

    Personhood, a most important concept.

    • 317david

      ErikOsbun You are a idiot liberal atheist!!!!!!!!!

  • gnafuasusual

    I put my feet in too many people’s shoes and always end up the goof ball. I am anti-abortion. But, there needs to be qualifiers. Incest, rape, and mothers who are asked to make choice between their lives or that of the babies. My Aunt and her new born baby died at the same time. They were buried at the same time. Leaving a grieving husband and two children who were now wifeless, motherless and grieved for the long awaited birth of their new daughter& new sister.  This was before “abortion” was ever considered. I lost my Aunt and her new baby. She was not given a choice. Knowing her, she would have chosen to die and let the baby live. But, in the end, everyone lost. This is only one case of needing qualifiers on abortion. I think what ND is doing is commendable. We need that more than ever throughout the U.S. right now.

    • mtborn

      gnafuasusual Very well said, I’d give a 1000 likes if I could.

    • 317david

      gnafuasusual Your saying people should be able to play GOD! If a woman is to die at child birth that’s the way it is  meant to be and I can’t imagine any Christian woman killing her baby to save her own life, you are brainwash must be a liberal! Get a grip on life you idiot!!!!!

      • JoeZimmerman

        317david gnafuasusual 
        Get  a  grip on yourself  ,,,,,,,,

      • Evermyrtle

        317david gnafuasusual This is not playing GOD, it is obeying the commandment,”Thou shall not kill.”  You are playing GOD if you kill your child. There are too many birth control remedies on the market. Look for them,because  they won’t look for you.

        • grriverajr

          Evermyrtle 317david gnafuasusual Actually, the proper translation is Thou shalt not murder”.  There is a difference.  Even in the days of Moses, they knew the difference between a legal execution, fighting in a war, or defending yourself or another with deadly force.  That is why there is no conflict to be pro-life and pro-capital punishment.  And gnafuasusual, I can understand the exceptions you cite, yet I still cannot think of why the child should receive the death sentance for the crime of a Rapist?

        • Evermyrtle

          grriverajr Evermyrtle 317david gnafuasusual  That is exactly my point, abortion is murder.

      • gnafuasusual

        317david gnafuasusual  No, I am not an idiot or Liberal. I am stating facts that perhaps some men never think about. Yes, God’s Word is good. We want to abide by God’s Word.  I can give you scenarios all day about incest, rape and mother and child…but you won’t listen to what I am trying to say because you want to think I’m an idiot and/or a Liberal. Let me put it this way. put yourself in some of those scenarios and see how you would FEEL. I don’t think you are an idiot or a Liberal or a Conservative or whatever – you are human. If you think people caught in sexual predicaments are not God loving individuals, you are very misinformed. My Aunt and her family were very Godly people – she never had the opportunity to tell the doctor to save the baby even if she knew she would die. And, I’m certain that if she had had a “choice” she would have asked for the baby to live!  At least we would have had a new baby in the family and helped everyone cope with the loss of my Aunt instead of the horrible trauma that everyone witnessed in that coffin. I still repeat that there must be qualifiers to abortion rules. The one thing I will say is that ADULT women must take responsibility for their own lives and actions.  If they want to live on the edge, then they must pay the consequences. And, abortion would not be an option. If that makes me an idiot or a Liberal, so be it in your eyes. God knows me and I know God.

      • kmilliorn

        d@317david gnafuasusual David–here’s a better question: Last year, a teenaged girl in the Dominican Republic who had acute leukemia was denied chemotherapy because she was in the early stages of pregnancy & the medication might cause loss of the baby. She & the baby died because the law there forbade giving her life-saving treatment. NOW who is “playing God”? The government of the Dominican Republic decided that she MUST die rather than POSSIBLY lose the baby. When given the choice between saving one life or none, I would try to at least save one–even if it meant going to prison. How would you have decided?

  • Photobill

    Does this mean one is eligible for a dependent tax deduction from the moment of conception? Also can welfare checks increase upon conception? This plan might be an expensive idea for government. Can a fertilized woman drive in the restricted commuter lane reserved for cars with two or more passengers?

    • mtborn

      Photobill Your being ridiculous.

    • ScottLast

      Photobill Let me ask you this. Do your questions about the ambiguity concerning tax deductions, welfare and carpool lanes really justify the taking of a human life? Wouldn’t it be prudent to be more careful about whom we kill and whom we allow to live, even if we can’t exactly decide who qualifies as a legitimate passenger in the carpool lane?

      • ronwmss

        ScottLast Photobill 
        Photobill’s question doesn’t seem ridiculous at all and it’s not an abortion question.  If the unborn baby is protected by the 14th amendment then two people can drive in the car pool lane etc.  That would seem to only logical consequence of this law.

        • jasch203

          ronwmss ScottLast Photobill You know why it’s ridiculous? Because a pregnant woman wouldn’t even think to attempt to use the car pool lane when she’s only occupying one seat in the car. Well, a smart conservative woman wouldn’t anyway! Liberal women? Yeah, they’d be dumb enough to push for it, so don’t put stupid ideas into their heads!

    • jasch203

      Photobill No, only liberals continue to demand more and more when it comes to their ideology and agenda. They are never satisfied! Once they get something pushed through, they come up with more to add to it or something else altogether. They’re like spoiled rotten little whiney crybabies.

    • ErikOsbun

      Photobill You are going to be a long time finding your answers.  Why don’t you settle for favoring smaller government?

    • queenk

      Photobill That is a pretty lame argument. While the mother is carrying HUMAN LIFE, the life inside her doesn’t require clothing or the need to eat from a plate as you and I. As for using a restricted commuter lane, since the baby doesn’t require an actual seat in the car, no, there is no reason she should be able to use it.

  • MichaelSSmith

    Let me   say I am not a “pro-choicer”in that I do not beleive a woman should be able to have an abortion just because she chooses not tnot have the baby but   she should still be able to get one  when it is a nessecity.  I do not consider a zygote to be a person but   I woujud consider it a person when it looks like a human being

    • mtborn

      MichaelSSmith So your last sentence when it looks like a person, So you don’t believe life at conception, So your attitude would be that because a seed of any plant doesn’t look like the plant it isn’t really a plant??? Screwed up thinking

    • Evermyrtle

      MichaelSSmith What is necessary? There as far as I know one legitimate reason and thatis a tubal pregnancy which could mean the death of the mother and the child. No other reason for a baby killing and that is because generally speaking the baby has no chance to live anyway,and the mother’s life will be sacrificed, also.

      • pastmaster41

        Evermyrtle MichaelSSmith It is not your choice, I have been placed in this position twice and I chose my children however we all have to make up our own minds within our own moral frame of reference and no I’m not pro abortion and I will fight to keep it legal because it is a valid medical procedure. Put your religion back in your pocket and leave me alone.

        • Evermyrtle

          pastmaster41 Evermyrtle MichaelSSmith You are right, the decision is up to each individual but for the wrong choices, if they are evil as in killing your children we will pay the price, except we repent. Murder is covered in the ten commandments of GOD.

        • queenk

          pastmaster41 Evermyrtle MichaelSSmith – Pastmater41, taking an innocent baby’s life is not a valid medical procedure. It’s murder, plain and simple. And if you want to be left alone, don’t post comments.

  • mtborn

    Fantastic North Dakota, I can only hope that more states will follow, Thank you Personhood USA

  • MARYANN33

    What a terrible bill…The Mexicans cross the border to have their children born here….They should not be citizens…To be a citizen, the parent needs to be a citizen….

    • grriverajr

      MARYANN33 The United States is the only – and I repeat ONLY – country that allows the offspring of someone in an illegal status gain citizenship.  The rest of the world assigns the citizenship of the mother to the child.  We are crazy, here.

      • pastmaster41

        grriverajr MARYANN33 International Law, as passed by the International Court of Arbitration in The Hauge states “that citizenship in the case of dispute is that of the Father” get it right people

        • grriverajr

          pastmaster41 grriverajr MARYANN33 That had been revised in 1983, and with good reason – we might not know who the father is, but we always know who is the mother!

        • queenk

          pastmaster41 grriverajr MARYANN33 The father doesn’t have to travel across the border to give birth to a baby. Maryann33 is correct. If the mother or father are illegal, their baby should be too.

  • 317david

    All this article is about, is to talk around Obumba being a baby murderer !!!!!!!!!!

  • truthbeknown

    Will all you idiots quit trying to play God.  He decides whan life begins and ends.  Where is the common sense he gave all.  why dont you folks stasrt using it and stop thinking you all know better than anyone else.  That is why this country and world is so screwed up.    My God forgive us all.

    • grriverajr

      truthbeknown Better yet, why don’t you try spellcheck, first?

      • truthbeknown

        grriverajr truthbeknown   Go back to school teacher.  typing to fast   if you couldnt understand what i was saying then its your problem.   you must be a liberal.

        • grriverajr

          truthbeknown grriverajr Then try thinking as fast as your fingers seem to be hacking.

      • queenk

        grriverajr truthbeknown Spell check is not necessary or relevant. Truth is truth no matter how you spell it.

        • grriverajr

          queenk grriverajr truthbeknown True . . . yet clarity of presentation allows for proper communication.  I have seen posts where the essence is conservative, but the delivery DELIBERATELY “hillbilly” to make fun.  A liberal passing as concervative in an effort to discredit.  I try to call these types out.

  • Evermyrtle

    What have birds, rabbits, mice, cows, hogs, horses, to do with “Life begins at conception?” We have the greatest source of information in GOD’S WORD” It tells us that sex with any beast is ” is an abomination and that the person and the animal shall be killed that had a part of this disgrace in the human race.

  • Evermyrtle

    Where does man get the idea that he should interfere with GOD’S business, that he has such a right? Of Course those doing this evil work do not believe in HIM, it will be too late when they see with their own eyEs that indeed HE IS GOD AND OVER ALL THINGS.

  • Geneww1938

    Please answer this then proceed. Do you have your soul or does your soul have your body?
    Since God knew you from eternity past, then you soul took on human life the instant it enable the fertilization of the egg for life to begin [God authors life!]. Your soul than takes on a second birth the instant the Holy Spirit of God becomes grafted into your soul. 
    Your soul’s eternal life is in heaven if it has the in-grafted Holy Spirit and in Hell if it does not have an in-grafted Holy Spirit.  
    http://jc.does-it.net is a must read, one page proof and text.

  • JoeZimmerman

    ODUMBA  is   a  pile  of  hog  crap  ,,,,

  • news desk at 101

    Yeah.. and “persons” are Legislated creations of Congress. I worry about the vernacular of this bill.

  • JoeZimmerman

    Fear   not   all is  well  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  • jonash48

    Geneww1938: A human being is a spirit. We have a soul and we live in a body. Your soul is comprised of your mind will emotions and intellect. The soul dictates whether it listens to the flesh or the spirit when making decisions. That is why The Bible tells us to renew our minds with God’s Word.

    • JosiahVictorHoffman

      jonash48 Geneww1938  You said a mouthful……I read your comments…And you are dead on! 2000% May God Bless you abundantly……tonight is the night of the Exodus of Israel as we celebrate “Pesach”. May you berichly blessed for you stand with the truth!

      • jonash48

        JosiahVictorHoffman jonash48 Geneww1938  Thank you, Josiah, and I bid you Shalom!

  • frank97838

    If I were a current resident of North Dakota I would contact all my legislators.  I would attend every town hall or community meeting and I would not only ask for their support, I would demand their support.  As it is, I can only hope I get the opportunity to do as much if it ever comes before my states legislators.  Thank you citizens of the Great State of North Dakota.
    Frank E. Vincent

  • news desk at 101

    Joe.. Would you care to elaborate on your statement, “all is well”? The 14th Amendment lowered everyone’s status to the definition as found in Black’s Law Dict. 1930 Ed. to “….monster, beast of the field, Godless men, men apart from God, mankind separated from God”. The so-called 14th Amend was known at the time as “The Great equalizer amendment”. On top of that, 14th’s have no “right to question the public debt” that has been foisted upon them as legislated “persons”.

    http://email.livefyre.com/wf/click?upn=2-2BFJnFpRhro120tGctXNX4vYtQALuEhpz-2Fij9bbcz2Z4OhWytFcj2eCIeIjPKuPxAzKZMErOq-2BqjvIxNdBDfmQmqFh11RjqtMCuiuDiuULP4mG-2BZ2RRzzLoAEPuirvgYL5NA2JiP8vJ8WD06QgAapN1-2Fa9ZvV8SRJNJzyo2Bhws-3D_uhbRMBYpP-2BpsTGoWahR439apuR4UN4sW08K85LgYqu8cMsZBb9-2B03Brnfowfvcg8UGey6vxjat9mafU35qFVNqvJxxXX4kXgSdBVqki5VxSM-2BFa1M14s9IBLRonUFWyYmBlltct27mXD1bwgJ9vZYlsV7OrZPkfX8NLKXqTVz-2Bg-3D

    ThomasGentile JoeZimmerman 
    Fear   not   all is  well  !!!!!!!!!!!

    • JoeZimmerman

      news desk at 101 
        ODUMBASD   days   are  numbered    , he  will soon  be  only  a  bad  dream ,,,,,,,

  • JoeZimmerman

    AMEN     right  on   ,,,,,,,,,,

  • Oldpatriot

    Finally.  A state with a pair!

  • RobertHayesHalfpenny

    I am certainly not in favor of abortion, however I sincerely hope that whatever law that is ultimately passed still allows for abortions in the cases of rape, incest, or the health of the mother. Also abortions of fetuses that may not be viable or suffer from profound defects should also be allowed.

    • NancyGlick

      RobertHayesHalfpenny   I agree with you 100%

    • mclark4430

      RobertHayesHalfpenny If you  had a baby that was mentally retarded and you didn’t know it until he/she was born, would you kill that baby?

      • grriverajr

        mclark4430 RobertHayesHalfpenny Another interesting thought – if you are the result of a rape, but Mom carried you to term, would you be glad you weren’t aborted?  I certainly feel that the RAPER be punished, but why the death sentance for the child?

    • cantwealljustgetalong111

      RobertHayesHalfpenny No offense, I totally understand where you are coming from – and I am far from decided on the issue – but if you believe in the right to life for ALL how can you give exceptions?  Should a baby be punished for the actions that led to its conception?  That is one reason that this is such an agonizing debate, and why I for one couldn’t resolve to answer that question for another person.

  • BMW Metro

    Life beginning at conception is not a belief.
    Life beginning at conception is a scientific fact as the fertilized egg has its own unique DNA at the moment of conception.
    This is the same science used as fact in a court of law to either convict or exonerate a defendant in cases as serious as rape and murder.

    • grriverajr

      BMW Metro Also, such DNA evidence is the justification in ALL STATES when a pregnant woman dies in the commission of the crime – there are two deaths not one, and three if she is carrying twins.

  • 7777777kay

    I think it would be a good idea if all the states would move in this direction.  Please send this email to the Governor Brewer of Arizona and the Republican State Legislature and suggest they move in this direction also.

  • NancyLaw

    This is good!  Hope it catches on.

  • WayneGraff

    OK, now we need to get every other state to follow suit and also pass personhood amendments.

  • Evermyrtle

    SC is one of the more Conservative andI hope thaty we will soon go that way as well as all of the more conservative states, wishful thinking 80/90% sound good.

  • FlyTyer

    This discussion of right to life has been going on all of my adult, and possibly my adolescent, life and it is a stupid discussion..  No one but god can decide life.  Potential parents can opt for or against life, but only god can decide the outcome.  BTW, I’m not a religious person.  I personally believe all of the fervent supporters or detractractors of the issue have their collective A$$es up their collective A$$es.

    • grriverajr

      FlyTyer Dude, that made about as much sense as “Adopteds for Choice”!

  • kmilliorn

    If personhood begins at conception, then, assuming the governor signs this into law, will all women with IUD’s (which prevent implantation of the fertilized egg, which under the new definition would be a “person”) be required to have them removed or be prosecuted for murder? It seems that this law intrudes farther into a woman’s body than any has previously & that all the ramifications, such as this one, may not have been considered.
    I do not believe abortion should EVER be used for convenience or birth control. However, there are rare medical circumstances in which the baby has deformities inconsistent with survival to term birth or survival much after that (such as anencephaly) is unlikely or limited & the continuation of. The pregnancy is futile & devastating to the mother & family, in which termination of the pregnancy should be considered humane. In addition, certain medical conditions, such as lupus, can become so severely exacerbated by pregnancy as to threaten the lives of both the mother & baby, & termination of pregnancy or delivery of the baby offer the only chances of improving the mother’s condition or saving her life. A blanket abolition of all abortions will cause needless suffering & certainly some deaths in these cases, unless some provision is made for medical & humane exceptions.

    • MJ123

      kmilliorn No, milliorn.  “Conception” means a FERTILIZED EGG.  Were you asleep during that class in high school?  It’s not the woman’s body on which we’re intruding – it’s the body of the baby we’re protecting.  Just because a baby is inconvenient for you doesn’t give you the right to kill it.
      Now, that being said, I’m actually all for abortion.  Liberals do it, not conservatives.  I’d abort you all at ANY age, but if in the womb is as close as I can get, I’ll take it.

      • kmilliorn

        MJ123 kmilliorn. In North Dakota, if the governor signs the bill into law, that fertilized egg will be defined as a person! I did not sleep through biology class OR med school. The ND folks have not considered ALL the ramifications of their definition–that was my point.

    • grriverajr

      kmilliorn Unfortunately, the medical justification (life of the mother, yadda-yadda) has been perverted by the abortion mills to include any excuse, from hangnails to depression because Mom would be able to go out clubing anymore.

    • frank97838

      kmilliorn Why don’t you understand?  First after Adam and Eve, life always begins at conception.  If a child is born with a debilitating deformation or mental problem he or she will still be a child, and it should be given every right to life, regardless of the circumstances that led to the conception.  Rape, incest or debauched abortion attempts should not be an excuse to terminate a life.  Secondly birth control devices are a conception preventive measures.  If they fail, that does not then give anyone a right to terminate the life.  It may be considered legal to destroy a life after conception, but in God’s eye’s a prospective life is a blessing.  If you destroy one, you’d better hope you have assurance from your Savior that He took it on Himself to suffer and die for your sin, or you can try to explain it to Him later.
      Frank E. Vinccent

      • kmilliorn

        frank97838 kmilliorn Mr. Vincent, IUD’s do not prevent conception–they prevent implantation of the fertilized egg, which under the new ND laws makes their use equivalent to abortion (by virtue of causing loss of that “life”, as the new law now defines it).
        I did not anywhere advocate for abortion for rape, incest, etc, as you state. (Nor for mental problems, either). As a surgeon, I have seen some instances which make me request that you stop & think what it means to sentence someone to live when you truly believe that their suffering should endd inn God’s arms. We have the Technology to prolong life, but too often prolong death. Have you seen an anencephalic baby?–one who has no head or brain above the eyebrows & no sight hearing, wakefulness, sense of touch?
        As for instances where the life of the mother is at risk, I am appalled at your “yadda yadda” remark. I have seen more than one young woman on the verge of death with medical problems like lupus. That were exacerbated to the point of causing multi-system organ failure–hardly a minor consideration!

        • frank97838

          kmilliorn frank97838 - You say IUD’s do not prevent conception.  However, an IUD is a device to prevent conception.  Twist it with with your injected interpolation, but it still a device that primarily is for the purpose of preventing conception.  If you want to say that terminating a pregnancy is proper and just because the child be a result of rape or incest and the mother does not want the responsibility that still does not justify the taking of that life, and it simply is not your call.  If a child will not live outside the womb without corrective surgery that still should not be your decision.  It is my understanding that most babies can live a normal life with corrective surgery while they are maturing in or outside the womb.  I just don’t believe God gave you the right for any reason to determine the life or death of a conceived child.

        • queenk

          kmilliorn frank97838 So many people these days, upon finding out their baby will be born blind or would never be able to speak or be deaf, they would most likely have the baby aborted. You know it as well as I do. But just think, Helen Keller had all of those three defects and look at what she achieved and what an inspiration she was to us all. Then there are all the babies that doctors said would never be normal and some would never make it past their first year or a few months or even a few days, but they were wrong. All those babies are also an inspiration. It is not intended for us to make the decision to take the life of the unborn.

        • frank97838

          queenk kmilliorn frank97838 - I like your insight.  Thank you!

        • kmilliorn

          queenk kmilliorn frank97838 –Thanks, Frank for making me look this up–you are correct! It seems my Dark Ages med school training about IUD’s was wrong!
          queenly–I have NEVER advocated abortion for any but extremely devastating defects, like the absence of the brain. If you have never seen these babies & the effect their birth has on their families, you cannot judge. Their total disconnect from the world is completely different from Helen Keller’s–she still had a brain that could learn; these babies literally have NO HEAD at all above the level of the eye, just open base of the skull with the lower brain that controls breathing. There is NONE of the brain that feels or thinks or knows–& never will be. They all die within days, of infection, after their families go through Hell on earth.
          I was pregnant 4 times & each of those babies was a gift & a person to me from the moment I knew I was I was pregnant. Two were lost (ectopic pregnancies–whom I still mourn). One survivor had a major life-threatening defect that required surgery when he was 2 hours old & had only a 50/50 chance of living. He is well, now & a dad, himself, & I give thanks for him regularly. So, this is not an issue that I take lightly or speak on without having thought long & hard. At the same time, my experience with patients & their families has taught me that comfort & compassion are gifts that doctors have too often forgotten in this age when so much technology is available to us.

        • kmilliorn

          frank97838 kmilliorn –Frank, I would NEVER argue that it is proper to abort a baby that results from rape or incest, or simply for “convenience”. Abortion has become a means of birth control to way, way too many women who should never have become pregnant–there are just too many preventive measures available. At the same time, abortion should not be made completely illegal–it should be legal, safe, & extremely rare.
          Yes, most babies with defects CAN live a normal or fairly normal life, as you say (see my reply below for more) , but there are a small number with defects that cannot be fixed. Who are we to tell these parents that they must suffer the pain of carrying a child with a lethal defect to term, watch it die, then wait a while longer & maybe, try again?

        • queenk

          kmilliorn queenk frank97838 As terrible as these things are, it is still God’s decision. Everything happens for a reason even though we may be totally clueless as to why such bad things happen. Why did God let his son be nailed to a cross?

        • Evermyrtle

          queenk kmilliorn frank97838 HE died willingly, as HIS FATHER allowed HIM to do, so that we who believe and live it, could be saved from everlasting hell. JESUS did not have to die, HE could have turned tail and ran from the horrors but HE didn’t, HE chose to die for us, who so many do not even recognize what HE did.

        • queenk

          Evermyrtle queenk kmilliorn frank97838 Evermyrtle, I don’t think too many people think of His sacrifice anymore. Nine months out of a woman’s life to bear an unwanted child, doesn’t sound like a sacrifice at all does it? A childless couple would love a chance to raise a baby that some women view as inconvenient.

        • SandyTrank

          queenk kmilliorn frank97838 Why? Because it was planned from the beginning, before we were even created with a free will. God knew we would misuse it. Jesus came specifically to die to pay for our sin; all of us,  You are correct that God does allow all this for a reason and it is quite honestly sin. Most have forgotten God, or never knew Him or don’t care to know Him. He said He caused it to rain on the just and the unjust…but He will not tolerate this forever but will bring it all to a end very soon. If it were not for Christ going to the Cross none of us would have any hope. He is our Hope, not man. If the Nation would repent as a whole, we could see His Mighty Hand move mightily on our behalf.

        • frank97838

          Evermyrtle queenk kmilliorn frank97838 - Hi vermyrtle. If you died today, would you go to heaven?  Would you be counting on Jesus or your good deeds?   Did you know that you are saved by grace not your works or good deeds?  Did you know that Jesus and The Father are one?  Yes, Vermyrtle, Jesus did have to die.  He came to suffer and die and all anyone has to do is ask Him to save them.  Nothing else.  Nothing more.  Eph 2: 8&9

        • SandyTrank

          frank97838 Evermyrtle queenk kmilliorn AMEN, FRANK!!

        • Evermyrtle

          frank97838 Evermyrtle queenk kmilliorn
          1.   Why do you want to know,.
          2. Is this how you think you will get your blessings?
          3. Well, yes I did, GOD!! My good works are to scanty and fragile to be called good works, what about you and your works?

          4. No, I did not know that because, GOD is the FATHER and JESUS CHRIST is HIS SON, and with the HOLY SPIRIT, they make the TRINITY.

          5.You must believe, you must accept JESUS  CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD AND YOUR SAVIOR. AIN’T NO OTHER WAY. 
          6. Acts 15:11 We believe by Grace  of the LORD JESUS CHRIST we shall be saved supports Ephesians 2:8-9

        • truthbeknown

          frank97838 Evermyrtle queenk kmilliorn   this is true. if you call on him he will come.  i know for a fact that he will.  because he has for me.

      • SandyTrank

        frank97838 kmilliorn Amen Frank!! Could not have said it better!

  • http://www.InformingChristians.com/ DebraJMSmith

    Good!

  • skin

    I must have missed that in logic class – her liberty gives her the right to take a life/kill her own flesh and blood… what great problem solvers progressives are… and so caring, compassionate and tolerant of the defenseless.  Kind of reminds me of what Hilter did to the Jews, Gypsies and those with assorted challenges…and lets not forget Stalin, Mao and the other thugs…  with the same logic you have shared.   That makes sense.  We don’t want to limit her liberty, just her child’s… oh, save the its not a child, its a choice…  it is a child as much as you… your just a little bigger and currently live outside the womb…  you speak like someone who has close connections to abortion…  some how only those willing to take a life couch the barbaric act of terminating a life as a right or the exercise of liberty.  But look at the other progressives ahead of you… Hitler, Stalin, Mao,… they too were known for their decisions on liberty and choice!

    • SandyTrank

      skin That kind of talk makes a lot of people really angry. I had a bumper sticker on my car that read:American Abortion; Hitler Would Have Loved It” and while I was in church someone ripped it off my car! I wish they had done it or tried in my presence. Abortion is the vile thing a human being can ever be involved in whether it is having one or performing one. As a RN I would have quit my job before I would have taken part in such a barbaric action. I do know that before we even know we are pregnant that precious little one’s heart is already beating. When Silent Scream was aired over tv I couldn’t watch, the tears came and I felt sick. You just have to wonder about the kind of person who could do it. I never could and I have 4 children and had more been on the way, I would have had them too.Ultra sound was just beginning to be used in the 80′s and my heart melted when I saw my Stacy bouncing around like a little deep sea diver kicking off the side of my womb each time she felt it and all with her thumb in her mouth. What an honor it is to be a Mom…

      • Evermyrtle

        SandyTrank skin You said it. That is the way I felt when mine were playing “foot ball” inside my uterus. It has been almost 60 years but the memories have not dimmed. I would not trade those memories for anything.

        • SandyTrank

          EvermyrtleNor would I. That’s one of the many blessings of Motherhood. Those things we never forget.

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle you got that right!!!

  • grriverajr

    Unfortunately, straw man argument will eventually fall. For those who erroneously feel (note – feel, not think) that birth is the beginning of human life because now the life is independent of the mother, make a huge mistake in logic extension.  The infant IS NOT independent of the mother.  If she walks away, the baby will soon die.  So what is the definition?  An extention of such logic is, when can the infant fend for itself? Until it can, when is the line drawn? You can abort until one year? Ten? Until the child in question has a job? And what about those who are elderly and need assistance to live? Can they be eliminated? Arbitrary assignment of humanity, such as you are not human until born, is a very fluid process. Just ask the followers of Sanger, such as Hitler. No, human life begins at the first division of a cell within a human ovum, and ends when the life process stills. Any other definition is simply a delusion, subject to the whim of the definer.  If you do anything else, you end up with abortion mills putting living babies on shelves in broom closets until they die hours or days later.

  • Caedmon7

    Just find a few cases where an assailant kills a pregnant woman.  Find out if they prosecute it as 1 murder or 2.

    • grriverajr

      Caedmon7 Heck, if she is carrying twins, it’s three . . .

  • gnafuasusual

    If you have never carried a loving baby inside your uterus, you have not a clue what all is involved. To love that child that was conceived out of love is one thing. To not be able to stand that child because it was conceived out of evil would be another matter. Most impregnated  rape victims carry term and adopt the child out to some loving parents. But, there are some victims  who can’t think of such a thing but will want that child removed from her before it becomes a living, breathing child. She will actually “hate” the baby as it grows inside of her.  I’m not saying it is good to abort, only that rape victims need to have choices. There is a lot of trauma involved with rape victims. Even if they are not impregnated, they wear a suit of fear for the rest of their lives.

    • grriverajr

      gnafuasusual Nice generalization that every woman would hate the baby in such a circumstance.  Your comments are breathtaking.  You merely repeat canards of the Left.  Rape, Incest, Life of the Mother – the amounts of such pregancies are quite small, in light of the overwhelming amount of pure contraceptive abortions out there.  Almost unworthy of comment, light flatulence at the theater.

    • Evermyrtle

      gnafuasusual I think you are right, but  they can’t get pass themselves. It is not a time to just give up, fight, fight now is the name of the game. It is either fight or loose it all.  In your fight against this horrible experience, that you are not alone, there is your family, friends, GOD., and a living, innocent child, who never had anything to do with being where it is.

    • queenk

      gnafuasusual Rape is a horrible thing, but to blame an innocent life and have it snuffed out because of it is also horrible. I cannot say what it is like to be raped, but I can certainly imagine how difficult it would be to deal with a pregnancy resulting from it. However, I guess that’s where one’s true character comes into play. One could snuff out the life that resulted from such a terrible deed to try and make that nightmare vanish more quickly, but it will not. Why not give up nine months of your life to give life to an innocent baby. After all, it could possibly be a blessing to a couple that couldn’t conceive. If a baby is aborted from such a crime, it becomes two wrongs. I know that there are woman out there that say it is unfair to even ask them to consider such a thing, but all I wish to get across is even though terrible things happen, doesn’t mean something good cannot come from it. I think it all boils down to how strong the victims character and faith is.

  • ThomRaasio

    RAPIST DESERVE THE DEATH PENALTY.  NOTHING LESS.
    The RAPE VICTIM deserves as much emotional support as can be possibly given her, but KILLING THE CHILD is NOT on the list.
    Regardless of the RAPE, the female body is CREATED to carry a BABY from conception to birth.  FOCUS YOUR RAGE ON THE RAPIST, not the BABY.  It’s NOT the baby’s fault.
    YOU SURVIVED THE RAPE, and you will CERTAINLY survive the preagnancy.  Put the baby up for adoption.  NO EXCEPTIONS FOR ABORTION……………NOT EVEN RAPE OR INCEST.
    The PRE-MEDITATED KILLING of an INNOCENT LIFE, and that is what ABORTION is, is MURDER in the FIRST DEGREE.

  • jonash48

    ThomRaasio: I agree. Abortion is murder. Rape should never be condoned and the victim should not be penalized for being raped, but supported in every way. Thank you for speaking out.

    • Evermyrtle

      jonash48 ThomRaasio I thoroughly she should be supported in any way to help her overcome such a terrible experience, short of assisting her of committing another crime, murder. This child as little as anyone may consider is half her child and just as much a grandchild to the grandparents as any other child of their children. If you think you may have any bad feeling against this innocent child, there are thousands of people out there wanting and waiting for a child to raise.

  • jonash48

    DaleNetherton: A fetus is an unborn baby who is alive and is a life which no one should be able to kill just for expediency’s sake. That woman can choose to get the help she needs to not just survive a rape, but to thrive in spite of it because in Christ Jesus we can have an overcoming, abundant life and physical as well as emotional and mental healing.

  • jonash48

    DaleNetherton: I am glad my mother, when she was raped at fifteen years of age, did not try to get an abortion or give up on life. If she had, my oldest brother would not have been born and I being her fifth child might not be here either, nor my younger brother, or my three sisters. And then, there are all my nieces and nephews not to mention my own children and grandchildren and great grandchildren.

  • jonash48

    DaleNetherton; No one has the right to murder a child. An unborn child is still a child. No one has the right to take that baby’s life just because it hasn’t been born. And those who do will answer to God who said we should not commit murder.

  • VictorRivera

    I am pro-life and this sounds great but as an attorney, it fails in at least 2 areas. Yes, North Dakota can claim that upon conception, the embryo is a person but Sec. 1 of the 14th Amendment says all persons “born.” You are not born until you come out of the womb. Hypothetically, even if the definition of “born” was changed to accommodate for all the embryos that are in existence, then this poses a 2nd problem which is a massive immigration issue. Now, anyone pregnant in the U.S., whether they are here on a work visa, vacation, illegally, whatever the case may be, would now have a U.S. citizen as their baby. This is unacceptable. We already have a massive immigration issue and this would open the flood gates. Like I said, I am pro-life and believe changes are necessary to recognize the unborn children but legislators need to be careful how they word the law.

    • queenk

      VictorRivera If they are here illegally, then so is their child. Both need to be sent back to where the mother came from.

      • grriverajr

        queenk VictorRivera Interestingly enough, that is how the rest of the world does it.  If you read the Federalist Papers and other period writings, this was hotly contested.  In the end, the desire to bulk up the population of the US won the day.  But Bad Law will always keep oozing to the top, being the nuisance that it is, and the chickens have come back to roost here in the US due to the bad policy in the 14th amendment.  Although there is a legal school of though that “Natural Borne Citizen” means legal status at birth (among other things).

  • JohnBMyers

    Life should begine and end with a heart beat. If you say life begines at conception you make the morning after pill illegal and rape pregnancy a nightmare. A Bible Code said no abortion after 40 days.   What the Press and Clergy won’t tell you…    http://firsttrumpetinrevelation.com/

  • sunshkid

    You are quite correct.  It is a misreading of the 14th Amendment by the liberals that have caused this.

    Let me clarify:  the words “…

    and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,  …” are the words that are the failure of the citizenship clause by said Article.  ILLEGAL aliens are in country by an ILLEGAL ACT, and therefore, until and unless they are caught, any act they do is ILLEGAL, and the government can take jurisdiction ONLY for the crime for which was committed, not granting them immunity for the crime of invasion, which is what they demand for their unborn child.

    Kind of like an individual breaks into your home, defecates on your coffee table and demands that you never remove his body part he left behind.

    • AndrewMicklos

      sunshkid The liberals haven’t mis-read anything, They simply choose to ignore the parts of the constitution they don’t like.

      • sunshkid

        AndrewMicklos sunshkid Talk about nailing it, you sure did!

      • Evermyrtle

        AndrewMicklos sunshkid What parts are they accepting? I was not aware of any of it that they approve of. They have trashed the entire thing. What they have not attacked individually, so far, are the parts that have not hindered their progress of stomping on America’s Christian traditions.

  • ThomRaasio

    VictorRivera The U.S. Constitution was set up to INSURE that the LIBERTIES the Continental Army fought for were fully protected and passed on to all the CITIZENS of the U.S.
    It was THESE WORDS that the Colonist went to war with England………”We hold these TRUTHS to be self-evident, that ALL MEN are CREATED equal and that they are ENDOWED (granted as a gift) with CERTAIN (made sure to us) UNALIENABLE (means no man or group of men, religious or secular has the right to deny them) RIGHTS (rights are not given by the government but by God) that among these (rights) are LIFE (a “live” sperm and a “live” egg CREATED a “new life”, and in America, that LIFE has a right to life until it does something to ajudicate it worthy of death through DUE PROCESS OF LAW), LIBERTY and the Pursuit of Happiness.
    That STATEMENT was an ACT OF TREASON against England and that STATEMENT FOUNDATIONED the reason the UNITED STATES was going to go to war against the most powerful military in the then existing war, AND WE WON!!!
    Had there been NO CONSTITUTION drawn up afterward, THESE RIGHTS were contained in the various State Constitutions PRIOR to the war with England.

    • Colorado Mom

      ThomRaasio VictorRivera You are so very correct!

  • sandman4X4

    These left wing moonbat miscreants, that have no value for life, or lets say this, they have for some reason, twisted their values to the point that they want a illegal to have more rights, than the person being created by two natural born Americans, and to go even further, they go through all kinds of motions, (carrying signs outside of prisons), to save the life of some scumbag murderer, that has been judged guilty by 12 of their peirs, than to give those same rights to an inocent unborn person! all because some women could not control her own body! and partner? or is it feelings? and yes rape is another mater, but still who are we to judge? feelings? that is a big one with the progressives! there is simply no logic in their thinking, it must be a sickness, another big one, is they want to let some criminal run around with weapons, and take the rights of the inocent, from being able to protect themselves and their families, with leagal ownership of said weapon, when there are plenty of laws already on the books, to “prevent the criminals” from doing evil things, but then they let their “feelings” get in the way of logic! once again, and I could post numerous ways of their wrong ways of thinking and “feeling” but have neither the time or  space. To everyone out there, have a nice day, and may God Bless those who would protect the defenceless!!!!

  • truthbeknown

    Ah the great debate..  Goes on and on.  we see the bible quoted and that is good.  I will not pick sides here.  i will only say that god created us all.   He gave us all free will.  Also a set of rules to follow.  Those who choose to follow then will those who do not will not.  We do not and can not control each other.  Unless you want to be as the government is now trying.  Unless you belive you are smarter than everyone else god included.   One quote and one only.  Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone.   anyone remember that one?

    • AndrewMicklos

      truthbeknown I believe he also said something about helping those who cannot help themselves.

      • truthbeknown

        AndrewMicklos truthbeknown   I agree,  we should help those who cannot help themselves. But at the same time it is not up to us to force our will on anyone else.  We are all entitled to what we belive, but not to force what we belive on others.  God will be the one to sort it all out in the end not us.

        • MichaelSSmith

          truthbeknown AndrewMicklos  Right my friend you are at least one voice of  common sense

        • Evermyrtle

          truthbeknown AndrewMicklos You are right GOD will be the one in the end to make the final decision, but thousands of years ago, HE gave us rules the rules to live by. HE will give us in the end, what we have earned in our lives, the gifts will be, life everlasting with HIM in heaven or life everlasting in hell.
          Now, we actually are not trying to force anyone into anything, but by using GOD’S rules to try to get people who are about to commit a sin, or an evil, from doing it. We have many laws of the land prohibiting from doing things that are harmful to the people around us. Normally these laws are not considered “force!”
          If you see a man with a gun determined to commit suicide, what are you going to do? I would think most people, if we can get the gun away from him, by force or any way we can, we certainly would use force. There is noway that we can force anyone not to get an abortion, killing her child but “PEOPLE OF GOD”  will do all in our power to provent it for her sake as well as for the child.

        • jonash48

          truthbeknown AndrewMicklos  But isn’t that exactly what our government is trying to do to us to force us to do what is against our conscience and our belief in God’s Word? That is what started this whole conversation to begin with. Obamacare is ruinous to our nation, just as the rest of his actions have been and will continue to be.

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle truthbeknown AndrewMicklos Right Myrtle! These that are so for abortion need to talk with the women who suffer nightmares and are tormented and grieve for that little life they disposed of in ignorance being told it isn’t a baby but just a clump of cells. We were all just a clump of cells once when looking at us thru a microscope but look at us now. It is all growth and we all look different at different stages of age. Its still a human being growing in a mothers womb no matter how old.

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle truthbeknown AndrewMicklos Within a very few days, after conception, that little lump of tissue has a beating heart. How do these would be murders explain that. Anything that has a heart beating is alive and usually well, just as long as that heart beats it is alive.

    • Evermyrtle

      truthbeknown  You are right we cannot control but we must not give up the fight for GOD, against the evils of the world and we may not deliberately choose sides but we do choose sides by the choice we make. I have made my choice and it is no secret and I likely will pay for it if I live long enough. but I trust GOD to intervene and protect me from evils intended for me because, “I HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE THE REST OF MY LIFE FOR HIM!” I know that it will not be a perfect, because I will fail time and time again, but wit repentance GOD forgives.

      • truthbeknown

        Evermyrtle truthbeknown   Yes i do not give up on gods word.  i will do what i can to make this world a better place for all.  however you cannot expect all to listen.  He knows that will not happen.  With his blessing i live each day.  If i saw a man drowing i will pull him from the water.  I will do my best to do what god has asked of me.  But he did give us free will for a reason and i will not try to take that away from anyone. it is a basic right one that is attacked daily by some in his name and others for other reasons.  neither can be allowed.  god bless you and may your life in him be a great one.

        • Evermyrtle

          truthbeknown Evermyrtle Your are right, we cannot take away anyone’s will to choose, that is what earns the reward in the end. It is, not what we may be forced but what we decide to do, what is the best thing to do, even situations that determine if we live or die by our free will.

        • queenk

          truthbeknown Evermyrtle God gave us choices and free will, so by your statement you are agreeing that pro life people should have the right to choose not to fund Obamacare’s abortion on demand. What are you going to say when God asks you why you remained silent and did nothing when millions of innocent babies where being murdered? There will be no justification like, “Lord, I did nothing to help the innocent babies because it wasn’t my place to do so”.

        • Photobill

          queenk truthbeknown @Evermyrtl. The Affordable Care Act does not provide for abortion on demand. It requires private insurance companies to offer contraception (except for religious exemptions) so that perhaps the desire for abortions can be reduced. Obamacare is a start so that all can have access to and afford healthcare so that we can live healthier and happy lives.

        • queenk

          Photobill queenk truthbeknown Abortion on demand should not be covered by insurance. I know society has different views on abortion when it pertains to rape, incest or the life of the mother is at stake. Even though I personally consider those things unacceptable reasons for abortion, I can understand why some people would. In only those cases, it still should be the insurance company’s choice on whether to cover them or not.

        • Photobill

          queenk Photobill truthbeknown I never said that insurance companies should cover abortion on demand.   What I said is that the affordable care act does not cover abortions contrary to what you said.   Contraception is another issue.   Unlike Catholic teachings, I believe contraception should be widely available and used, so that we can reduce the instances where abortion is even considered.

        • queenk

          Photobill queenk truthbeknown I fully agree on using contraception. One cannot destroy what is never created.

        • SandyTrank

          queenk truthbeknown Evermyrtle We all have that right and people of God try to choose right instead of wrong according to the Scriptures but in the end we ALL face Jesus Christ and He will either be our Saviour or Judge. We get to decide on this side of the grave which side we are on. None is perfect, but God. We can’t physically stop abortions but we will never vote on a ballot  for one who believes in abortion or same sex marriage and we can speak out to maybe help someone else maybe have a better understanding of things.

        • WayneGraff

          truthbeknown Evermyrtle Truthbeknown, I have a question for you, if you could have stopped the guy in Newtown from murdering all those children, would you have done so? That is what we who are pro-life are trying to do, stop the murdering of millions of children. I hear people screaming at the tops of their lungs about us not allowing them to have a choice. They have a choice, don’t sleep around with strange men and quit having sex with everything that moves. Love does not equate with sex, animals can have sex, it doesn’t mean that they love each other. Have some respect for your body first, then maybe people will respect and learn to love you.

        • truthbeknown

          WayneGraff truthbeknown Evermyrtle Hmm if you had really read all my comments you would not have asked that question.

      • jonash48

        Evermyrtle truthbeknown  Amen! We CAN choose God’s side of truth and right. Thank you for your boldness.

    • queenk

      truthbeknown There are God’s laws and man’s laws. Christians should follow both. You said we cannot control each other, but indeed we do. That is exactly why there are laws and when one breaks them, they go to prison and it’s certainly not of their choosing to do so. If you saw someone being harmed by another, would you not do anything? It is your duty as a citizen to at least call the police, just as it is your duty as a Christian to protect human life, especially an innocent baby’s. It was good that you quoted the bible, but you left out “Thou shalt not kill”.

      • truthbeknown

        queenk truthbeknown   But if we all followed gods laws would we need any others?

        • queenk

          truthbeknown queenk No, we would not, but  people don’t follow all God’s laws and since there is no man without sin, we need man’s law to follow here on Earth or there would be total chaos. We will all face consequences with God when the time comes, but we must face them now too because bad deeds cannot go without punishment to maintain an orderly society.

  • kmilliorn

    Those of you who wish to see state & federal laws rewritten as Biblical laws have decided, then, that there should be no separation of Church & state? That the founding fathers were wrong? Do you not see that this is–in its own way–exactly the same as those Muslims who want to have their countries ruled by Sharia law (although Christian Law & Sharia are quite unlike!). Theocracy is theocracy–whichever God you choose as the legal basis for your system. The moment you make laws based upon your belief that they are “God’s Will”, you have set yourself in His place as judge–is that really good?

    • frank97838

      kmilliorn - It seems you have a personal resentment of factors that divide the Bible’s perspective and the present legal system.  If you have a problem with God, just say so, then we will know why and where your resentment is channeled.  You may want to know that the first amendment of the Constitution does not call for a separation of church and state.  It says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”  
      Frank E. Vincent

      • kmilliorn

        frank97838 kmilliorn –I have no problem whatsoever with God! I’m with truthbeknown, in fact–”if we all followed God’s laws, we wouldn’t need any other laws”. The kicker is that not ‘all’ do. I celebrate true Christmas all year long & give thanks daily for all things–gifts large & small (a child’s laugh, a kindness, another day of life). These things do not mean I check my logical brain at the door, however. God gave me a brain to use–I have tried to use any talents He has given me for good & for service of my community. That is a choice, but also an obligation.

    • SandyTrank

      kmilliorn The difference is that we serve the one True God, and the muslims don’t. Our country was founded on Christianity. Our laws reflect such. We don’t desire a theocracy but to adhere to the laws of the Bible. The sin of murder has it’s penalty in our laws today and that comes from the Ten Commandments. Thou Shall Not Murder. It is all quite plain to me. Muslims murder those who don’t convert to islam, Christians do not. One cannot force one to believe or to love God, it is all voluntary, but we can and would uphold Biblical Principal such as murder. Christianity is a choice we  make and we are also free to walk away from it. Let a muslim try to walk away from islam and see what happens to them. You are trying to compare Heaven to Hell.

  • CharlesHigley

    Geez.
    In a land where you are supposed to have freedom of choice, one group is imposing their beliefs on everybody. That’s NOT what our country is founded on. We cannot afford to have every child that is conceived and, if an adult life is to be ruined by an unwanted pregnancy, who are these people to force it to happen?

    • unsheepled1

      CharlesHigley There are more  people  waiting  to  adopt than  what  we  abort( 4000 a  day) Americas  holocaust  53 MILLION  !  What  army  will invade US  to  stop that  ! People  who use  MURDER  as  birth control  are  misinformed. Abortion is ONLY  a  small part. They are cloning  human  animal..it comes down to. ethics, if you have none,  someone  else  may decide  about the  value  of your  life  one  day !

    • queenk

      CharlesHigley Really!!Are you an atheist or simply have no compassion for human life? Adult life ruined by an unwanted pregnancy? If you don’t want or can afford to conceive a child, take the responsibility and use contraceptives or don’t have sex. Nobody is forcing you to be irresponsible and conceive a child! We are, however, telling you if you do, you don’t have the right to murder it because it will “ruin” YOUR life!

    • SandyTrank

      CharlesHigley So a “ruined” life is above taking one? Murder is better? God said Whosoever WILL. That gives you the  choice and you get to choose; it is that those of us who have chosen Him know with a certainty that His Way is best and that we never lived at all until we found life  in Christ. Why would we not want to tell everyone that there is a better way? There is you know…

    • AndrewMicklos

      CharlesHigley I agree that we can’t afford all the kids that are conceived by reckless rats. Maybe they should practice a little control on occasion.

    • Evermyrtle

      CharlesHigley The solution is don’t to kill the baby, just do not get impregnated. Only a simpleton can not see that that is this solution and another simpleton who cannot figure out how that is done, another simpleton that cane not see that killing your child is murder, the fourth simpleton  is he that supports murdering your children.
      The big answer is to turn to GOD and seek HIS assistance in taking care of the all the problems connected with life, HE is in the wings just waiting for us to ask HIM for HIS help.

      • http://www.dds-sd.com/ egalicki

        Evermyrtle CharlesHigley This murdering babies is just another face of molech – the false god of the old testament who was real big on having parents throw their babies in a fire as sacrifice to him – now he just gets parents to murder the babies – and he has convinced them it is OK -

        • Evermyrtle

          egalicki Evermyrtle CharlesHigley You are right, they burned them back the and threw int the river so the crocodiles could eat them among other ways to kill them

        • SandyTrank

          egalicki Evermyrtle CharlesHigley Yes, the Mayans did that very same thing and sacrificed themselves right out of existence.

  • amfer ferg

    North Dakota is looking better and better every day. Seriously thinking of moving not only my family but my company there.

  • Bullfeathers

    I really am pleased to see so many folks w/ common sense here (by far out numbering the few whack jobs) Makes me wonder how did obuma get re-elected……….soooooooo  very sick.

    • AndrewMicklos

      Bullfeathers He got elected by the people who do not read these blogs. The blacks @95%, the Jews @80% and Union goons @ 60%. He also had a large fraud operation going that stole millians of votes.

      • Bullfeathers

        AndrewMicklos Bullfeathers  ya   fully agree  I think the fraud part is likely a lot bigger than we’ll prob. ever know…

  • Bullfeathers

    You sound like a real simpleton , that’s lived a life of comfort never having experienced genuine danger , I for one have been in a church less  times than I have digits on my feet & hands (don’t like organized religion=too many ass holes hide there) But I Totally Know God is there , and has been for me …no other explanations can explain my survivals… & my 3 fine sons & one fine daughters successes.

    • SandyTrank

      Bullfeathers It could just be you are mistaking God’s mercy for God’s approval of you. He just could be extending you mercy to allow you time to come to your senses. There are hypocrites in every church but is that all it takes to make you “forsake the assembling of yourselves” as we are told in Scripture not to do? God is not in every church, He only goes where the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified is believed and preached. Christianity is not a “religion” it is relationship with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, knowing our unworthiness and His Worthiness and Ability to pay our sin debt and accepting that payment, holding onto that payment in faith knowing that His Blood cleanses from all unrighteousness. There are true people of God in Church and we have to seek them out. Jesus said the wheat and the tares grow together and He will not uproot the tares lest He uproot the wheat as well. No Church is perfect but Christ is and He is the One we go to church to commune with and worship. Nothing can replace that special time of congregational worship. If the enemy of our souls can get us off by ourselves we are weaker and easier to pull down; like the wolf and a lone sheep. I don’t always get to church but when I don’t I watch SBN for Sunday morning evening and Wednesday evening church. The Gospel IS preached there and you will be fed spiritually. You need that too. If our spirit isn’t fed it dies, just like our physical bodies. You can find it on line as well at sbntv.com

  • ChillaKilla

    Finally…! A state that has mustered the courage to go against the toxic secularist tide!!!! Bravo North Dakota…. wherever  it is you are located!

  • frank97838

    (1.)  The following is referred to as the Romans Road:  Romans 3:10 – 3:23 – 6:23 – 5:12 – 10: 9 thru 13.   (2).  I am not concerned with rewards as a reward implies I deserve them.  Jesus is my exceeding and great reward.  (3). You speak of the Trinity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.   (4).  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.  All things were made by Him (God) and without Him (God) was not anything made that was made.  And the Word (God) was made flesh, and dwelt among us , (and we beheld His glory , the glory of the only begotten of the Father.  Jesus said “I and my Father are one”.   All of this information can be found throughout the Bible, but to keep it close you may find it all written in the first 10 chapters of John.

    • SandyTrank

      frank97838 Are you saying there is NO Trinity? What do you do with Matthew 4:16 and 17 where the Holy Spirit descended like a dove upon Jesus as He was Baptized and God the Father spoke from Heaven saying this is My Beloved Son. We see a distinct example of the Godhead there; or John 4:34 where we are told Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure? Our baptismal formula, if you will, is to baptize in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The word of Jesus in Matthew as He gave us the Great Commission. The last Scripture is 1John5:6-8 “This is He Who came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit Who bears witness, because the Spirit is Truth, For there are Three Who bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these Three are One. And there are Three Who bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water and the blood; and these Three agree in One.” We know from Scripture that there is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. We deserve nothing as far as reward goes but we will receive, the Bible says, according to our works after Salvation. Our sin and sinful works are washed away at conversion so our sin was judged at the Cross of Christ and we will be judged by our works. We cannot however, become more righteous by our good works for we receive the Righteousness of Christ at Salvation and we certainly cannot exceed His Righteousness for we have none of ourselves. We will be judged for our works at the Judgement Seat of Christ. The unbelievers will appear for Judgement at the Great White Throne Judgement. If you are saying there is NO Trinity, you would be mistaken,not Myrtle.

      • frank97838

        SandyTrank frank97838 - I Believe God is a Spirit and you should worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.  I believe the third part of the trinity is Joshua (Jesus) who is of the very seed of God, and came down to be born from a virgin and in the fullness of time and without sin to suffer and die as a propitiation for sinners.  The spirit descended upon Him to reveal Him as the Lamb to be sacrificed if the Jews would acknowledge him as Savior and King.  However, the term Trinity is not written in the Bible, but as you expressed it “as a distinct example of the Godhead”.  I am also saying that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works.  I am also saying there are no rewards mentioned in the Bible.  Some people think the crowns of eternal life are earned.  Not so, because the Saints will cast them at the feet of Jesus.  Baptism by water  is only for a sign of repentance for the Jews and has no part in salvation, and it never states that it does.  Some my try to say that Jesus’s sacrifice was not sufficient alone, and we must do our part by being baptized but that is wrong.  They try to imply it was necessary as when Phillip read the Hebrew scriptures to the Ethiopian eunuch and he asked what doth it hinder me to be baptized?  But only after he stated that he believed Jesus Christ is the Son of God”.  Therefore baptism is an outward testimony of  salvation.  One more thing, we will not be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ.  See Romans 8:1&2  And remember the law convicts us of sin, and Jesus took the law out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

        • SandyTrank

          @Frank I believe in some of the same things you do but a few differences. Trinity is just means 3.The Bible says These Three are One meaning One Godhead but in 3 persons. The Holy Spirit is a Person that can be grieved as we are told not to grieve Him by resisting. Christ was born of Mary without the sin nature that we were born with due to the Fall in the Garden of Eden. John the Baptist said God was going to reveal His Son to him by Who the Holy Spirit would come upon and stay. Jesus was also filled with the Spirit without measure so there is adequate Scripture to support that view. Christ was also to Baptize with the Holy Spirit and Fire so I have to believe that the Godhead is comprised of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. I also agree that it is faith alone that saves. Water baptism is a sign of a work already done in one’s heart; it doesn’t save and our crowns will be thrown at His Feet, you are right about that. At the water Baptism of Christ all three persons of the Godhead are revealed together as well as the Scripture I gave you in 1 John 5:6-8. Faith in Christ and His Finished Work is definitely enough or the thief next to Him wouldn’t have been promised by Christ that he would be with Him in Paradise that very day. We can’t add for sure. It was after Phillip explained the Scriptures to him and he understood and received Christ that he asked if he could be Baptized. I don’t know how they can misinterpret that one, it’s pretty clear. Jesus did wash away our sin at the Cross and our sin was already judged but we are told we would be blessed to be present at the Judgement Seat of Christ because we would not have to have any fear of the Second Death which is the Great White Throne Judgement where the ungodly will be judged. We will be judged for what we did after Salvation tho. Scripture calls it the Judgement Seat of Christ so there is more to that than just appearing in Heaven with Him. I think personally Jesus was telling us that there would be an accounting for what we do after Salvation in the parables he told about the talents that were given His servants. One was given 10 and so on. The one who did nothing with his talent lost what he had. We can’t know exactly how it’s going to be but Scripture is clear on some things. We will have to wait on much of it.

        • frank97838

          SandyTrank - Well said!  I have only this to say – Yes what is done in the body will be judged at the Judgment seat of Christ, however, “there is therefore no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus— Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.  At the Judgement seat of Christ, my works have already been found lacking and when judged they will see the blood of Calvary as the judgement for our deeds.  
          Sandy Trank, I thank you for you comments.  Let us both study to show ourselves approved unto God, — rightly dividing the word of truth.
          Frank E. Vincent

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Sandy, honey, I just believe you are wasting your time. This one is sen in his”I am right” ways and can not be changes.  If you want to continue with him I will pray for you and GOD WILL BLESS YOU

    • Evermyrtle

      frank97838
      How do you explain I John 5:16. You need to convince yourself, that self righteousness is not a merit, it is sin, plus the fact that you turn people  off and not inspire them with too high opinion of your self. Check out:.  Proverbs 6:16-19, 16:5; 21:4; Romans 12:3 Gal. 6:3-4; James 4:6;

      • frank97838

        Evermyrtle frank97838 - I am sorry if I came across as rude and arrogant.  You ask me to explain 1 John 5:16.   “This is he that came by water and blood.  And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.  I believe the water and blood refers to His physical life and that he was pierced for me.  Not blood only, but water and blood to proclaim he was physically dead.   I believe the written word of God transcribed in the KJV because it has no copy write and God has kept it pure.  I believe it is recorded in 1 John 5:11 of the KJV that I have eternal life through Jesus Christ.  Those who don’t believe the record call God a liar.  I believe His Holy Spirit gave us this record so that we may KNOW we have eternal life in the name of the Son of God Jesus Christ.  
        Frank E. Vincent

        • SandyTrank

          frank97838 Evermyrtle  I am sorry but I have to interject one more time. Frank you have the wrong Scripture. Myrtle gave you 5:16 and that is about sin unto death. I too use the King James version but also Young’s Literal Translation which is also King James with a word for word translation. It reads rough but you would get a clearer picture if you were to use that as well for study.

        • frank97838

          SandyTrank frank97838 Evermyrtle Sorry again.  I thought there was a question about 1john 5:6.  I believe 1 John 5:16 concerns someone who wanders from the path of uprightness or honor, we should pray for that person.  However, there is a sin unto death and I believe that is one who rejects the conviction of the Holy Spirit for salvation, it would be pointless to pray for one who despises Jesus as Savior.

  • ThomRaasio

    GOD was NOT a FATHER until he and the Holy Spirit “birthed or brought forth” the UNION of their TWO SPIRITUAL MINDS.  MINDS are SPIRITUAL and MINDS form and hold THOUGHTS and VISIONS but that’s all they are until those thoughts and visions and plans are SPOKEN into being.  Thoughts are UNSPOKEN words.  WORDS are SPOKEN THOUGHTS giving LIFE and CREATION to all that was INCUBATED in the WOMB of the EMPTINESS of the universe until God SAID (spoken word) LET THERE BE LIGHT……..and that is when EL and ELOI brought forth ELOHIM who was INSIDE El and Eloi as Eloi had been INSIDE El.

    • SandyTrank

      ThomRaasio  I don’t know about all of that but God said at the Baptism of Jesus that He was His only Begotten Son. I believe that God didn’t change because He does not but He has many names that describe Him and Father became one of them when Jesus was placed in the womb of Mary.

      • Evermyrtle

        SandyTrank ThomRaasio There are three; GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE THREE MAKE UP “THE HOLY TRINITY” Best to leave the rest alone, it was not meant for Christians.

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle We need to all take care as you say what is said and believed regarding the Holy Spirit as Mark 3:28 tells of the Unpardonable Sin and there is NO forgiveness in this life or the next. Jesus said we could say all manner of things against Him but not the Holy Spirit. Jesus also said before He left the Disciples that He would not leave them alone but the Father would send the Holy Spirit to be with us that would bring to their remembrance all of the things He taught them. We would be a meal for the roaring lion who goes about looking for those he can devour without the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord for not leaving us alone!!!

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle You are right, there are many who think they will be saved because the believe that JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD and going with their life, living without a sign that this is what they believe. I guess that they do not know that Satan, also knows that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. If you believe that and you love HIM as well you must strive every day, to live according to HIS will.

        • SandyTrank

          Right Myrtle! One cannot accept Christ as Saviour and then live like the devil and expect the Lord won’t notice. None of us are perfect but if we believe right and trust totally in that Precious Sacrifice for us and live for Him as best we can, that is what it is all about. If we willfully sin there is no more propitiation for our sin. Many profess but do not possess.

        • SandyTrank

          Just believing is not enough as Jesus said the devils believe and tremble, there has to be a life lived.

        • frank97838

          SandyTrank   If  you think that eternal life can be lost should you continue to sin then we all are lost and eternal life is not eternal.  If I commit premeditated murder and adultery then I am not saved?   If that’s the case then neither was King David.  The Bible say’s there is none righteous, no not one.  Thank my Lord Jesus I don’t have to depend on my nature to assure my salvation, because there is now NO condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.  Enough said, goodbye.

        • Evermyrtle

          frank97838 SandyTrank I don’t think that is what Sandy said or meant!

        • SandyTrank

          frank97838 SandyTrank You sure assume a lot and I am sure you know about ASSUME. If your life style does NOT change after you are Born Again something is wrong. If you are murdering and a fornicating fool, something is wrong. Sin must be repented of, if you think you don’t need to repent something is wrong and Myrtle is right, what you think I said is NOT what I meant. King David was a man after God’s own heart, He said so and it was because David lived a life of repentance. None of us is perfect and any Christian that thinks they never have to repent again ever is putting their soul at risk. Sorry but we are told when we sin to repent and He will forgive. My goodness you are touchy today!!

        • http://www.dds-sd.com/ egalicki

          SandyTrank frank97838 In the little John book God says anyone ho says he has no sin is a liar and does not walk in the light – admit you have sin and you are in the light. Then in Heb He says I know every dark nasty secret you are hiding deep down anywhere – come boldly to the throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in time of need – and He didn’t say anything about cleaning yourself up first – He said come !
          He also said God was in Christ reconciling the world (not the church) to Himself – not counting their trespasses against them -  did He or did He not?

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank frank97838 I doubt that you can tell Frank anything, he already know it all, I suspect.

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle Myrtle, Revelation 3:5-6 “He who overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life but I will confess his name before My Father, and before the His Angels. 
          He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the Churches.” 
          If our name can be blotted out as Jesus here says then it is possible to lose our Salvation. Jesus said so

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle SandyTrank frank97838 It’s too bad. We don’t go out of our way to offend or anger anyone but the Word of God is clear in so many areas that it just shocks me when someone doesn’t see. It takes the Holy Spirit to reveal Truth and we have to depend on Him to do it. Perhaps at best we can hope for is to prompt them to see for themselves by reading and seeking the Lord sincerely wanting the answer. We can be wrong and the Lord use someone to get us to check it out for ourselves. Unfortunately too much error is being preached these days and it gets slipped into the truth being preached and people just accept it. Gotta know for ourselves what the Word says and not always accept what our Pastor says. We love our Pastors but they can be wrong too. We are responsible for our own walk with the Lord. When we face Him, we alone will be accountable for our actions since being Born Again.

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle frank97838 You are right, knowing HIS WORD  is the key. I have always been a person that if I did not understand something of if I disagree, I will go to the WORD and search until I find the truth and I must say I am wrong many times. After I state my belief, I will not argue the point. Maybe I should more argumentative but I am not good at that. There is something wrong when a person cannot bend to find the truth. We should never end our search for the truth. If we do that we lose, we cannot gain unless we continue to study. I hope Frank can come to this point of truth. And we must be careful what we swallow of what is being taught as GOD’S TRUTH in the world, today.these days. Much of is is anything but the truth.

        • grriverajr

          SandyTrank You touch on what the essence of Faith without Works.  The reason why so many have trouble with this issue is that after an honest study of it (along with a good Concordance, writings of the Church Fathers, and assistance of those who have been studying Theology) you come to the fact that Salvation is a Gift that can be denied and lost.  Simply uttering a fornula (this goes for Catholics as well as Protestants) without honest effort and continuing on your merry sinful ways wth some sort of smug “Lord – I gotcha!  You can’t deny me now!” gets you nowhere.  Talk about putting you Lord God to foolish tests!  This is not a surprise to Catholics, though, as this has been part of the Church since the Bible was formally presented in the mid 300′s.  It has been lost along the way with many other things since the Schism, with literalist self-interpretation not helping things any.

        • SandyTrank

          grriverajr Your right about all of what you said. I heard Bill OReilly say once that one of the reasons why he loved being a catholic is that there are about 5 different ways to get to Heaven and he would make it one way or the other. I knew he was catholic but about fell out of my chair on that one! There are so many Scriptures that tell us that we must endure to the end and in Revelation when John was asked who these persons were the Angel told him they were killed during the Great Tribulation for their faith in Christ and they loved not their lives to death and several times the phrase is stated “and they overcame by the Blood of the Lamb.” It is a narrow way and as imperfect as we are if we keep our faith right and do everything we can to walk right and quick to repent when we fail, He is Just and Faithful to forgive our sins. God is Good and He has provided all that we have need of in this life to overcome and to be with Him forever. I will probably never meet you in this life but I will see you in Glory!

    • Evermyrtle

      ThomRaasio Where on earth do some people get their radical ideas? Sounds like some of this modern day.religion. This is  w   a   y  out in left field.

      • ThomRaasio

        Evermyrtle ThomRaasio   I’m sure what I shared does sound “way out in left field” if you’re not a student of the Bible.
        There’s no “new theology” being shared here.  If you’re wrapped in a “denominational shell” and you don’t study the word on your own, I understand you feeling the way you do.
        I used to be the same way until I started actually reading the  Bible and taking it LITERALLY in what it says and means.”

        • ThomRaasio

          Evermyrtle ThomRaasio All I shared was information TOTALLY PROVEABLE by scripture, that the TRINITY is REAL.  That it is un-refutable in the Hebrew and the Greek.
          There has been no attempt on my part to delete or change anything about the TRUTH of the scriptures but to CLARIFY those truths for those who don’t have the opportunity to thoroughly search it out (and that’s NOT a criticism).

        • Evermyrtle

          ThomRaasio Evermyrtle I promise you , I am not the one way out in left field, nor am I not a Bible student, I search HIS WORD every day. What about you, do you do this or are you studying the “new theology?” If that is where your are coming from you better backup to the place where your started with that. I have approved and voted on some of you posts, so I really do not know what your problem is

  • ThomRaasio

    Now get a load of this. JAH is initially ALONE though JAHWEH and JAHOVAH are “IN HIM” and are OF him and ARE him.
    Then, just as EVE was “TAKEN OUT” of Adam, and made a woman, that is the earthly picture of when JAH took JAHWEH out of himself and made HER.
    Proverbs 3 and 8 clearly defines this RELATIONSHIP between JAH and JAHWEH, between “EL” and “ELOI” before “ELOHIM” (the WORD was SPOKEN (birthed, brought forth).

  • ThomRaasio

    As touching the “TRINITY”, look at this.
    The FIRST person of the Godhead is the JAH. Being FIRST also makes him number ONE. The Hebrew word for the number ONE is “EL”.
    The SECOND person of the Godhead is JAHWEH. Being SECOND also makes the position number TWO. The Hebrew word for the number TWO is “ELOI”
    The THIRD person of the Godhead is JAHOVAH. Being THIRD also makes the position number THREE. The Hebrew word for THREE is “ELOHIM”
    The FIRST person “EL” asked the THIRD person “ELOHIM” to offer himself on the Cross to redeem mankind. While on the cross, the THIRD person, “Elohim” cried out to the SECOND person saying “ELOI, ELOI…..” The THIRD being obedient to the FIRST, cried out to the SECOND person of the Godhead.

    • SandyTrank

      ThomRaasio I can’t say because I don’t know enough Hebrew to argue the point, you could be totally correct. I did teach a study on the Creation and the names of God were there but I can’t remember exactly how it goes. You are at least partially right if not all.

    • Evermyrtle

      ThomRaasio Thank you very much, for this information. I do not know word of Greek, at least untill these words, again thinks a million!!!!!!!!
      Myrtle

      • Evermyrtle

        Evermyrtle ThomRaasioI’m sorry, I do not know why I wrote Greek, I guess that was on my mind and I do not know a word of Hebrew or of Greek and as usual I did not edit before I clicked on “post comment Again thank you for the info.

  • grriverajr

    It does not take long for the “rape and incest” chestnut to come out. No one ever asks, “what is the ratio of rape and incest cases to just flat out birth control abortion?” It is miniscule. It is but a few grains of sand on the beaches of dead babies from the efforts of the Big Business Abortion Mills. Yet it is ALWAYS front-and-center for the pro-abortion crowd. And even then, I say yes, punish the rapist, whether a blood relative or not – but why give a death sentance to the child when you won’t give it to the rapist? To make the question even more interesting, ask it of someone who was a result of a rape but was NOT aborted. I think his or her perspective will be much different than you might think.

    • Evermyrtle

      grriverajr  You are right about that, Over all, 75 % say kill the baby 80% only give the raper a lesser sentence.
      Liberals the vote is something else like 95% kill the baby 99 % it was either the victim’s fault or he couldn’t help it.

  • ARMYOF69

    Pro life is just that. We want life to exist, even for an an unborn human being. There is no reason for an abortion to happen ,with the sole exception of the mother’s life being in jeopardy. No other reason is valid. Government endorsed murder of the unborn on a legal level is a CRIME.

  • http://www.dds-sd.com/ egalicki

    If you talk about life there is a process called mitosis – and any scientist in biology or any life science will tell you without a doubt there is no mitosis anywhere without life – so if there is mitosis there is life. This is how the sperm and egg germinate and then start splitting and growing to the different parts of the body. If there is mitosis there is life. Maybe not thinking-speaking life – but life – and that life – left undisturbed – will progress to thinking – speaking life.

    What do the pro-death people thik about aborting baby seal fetuses? or stray dogs in the pound having their litters aborted?

    • grriverajr

      egalicki Wrong question to ask – think has nothing to do with it.  How do they FEEL about it is much more apt.  Of course, hypocracy and conflicting logic can hide amongst feelings, and not survive the daylight of thinking.

    • SandyTrank

      egalicki They put the welfare of animals ahead of humans and have for a long time. If we had dominion over the earth as God had planned, we would not be bowing to our enemies for oil. In Jeremiah, the Lord said to him, before you were in your Mothers womb, I knew you. Human life even before sperm and egg come together and certainly at the moment of conception.

  • Patriot451

    I thought we believed in freedom!

    • grriverajr

      Patriot451 Unfortunately, although the Liberal speaks English, his or her meanings are totally different from anyone other than themselves.  For example, “freedom” to them meands agreeing with and going along with them.  This is a shared meaning across many domains – “free speech” means their way or the highway, “tolerance” means their view or die, etceteras.  “Shared Resources” means they take yours but don’t touch theirs, yadda-yadda.  Once this is understood, the Forked Tongue of the Liberal suddenly clarifies, and their true aims are laid bare.  To do anything else is to be a Sucker – and, in their lexicon, that means anyone else but them.

  • grriverajr

    Unfortunately, although the Liberal speaks English, his or her meanings are totally different from anyone other than themselves. For example, “freedom” to them meands agreeing with and going along with them. This is a shared meaning across many domains – “free speech” means their way or the highway, “tolerance” means their view or die, etceteras. “Shared Resources” means they take yours but don’t touch theirs, yadda-yadda. Once this is understood, the Forked Tongue of the Liberal suddenly clarifies, and their true aims are laid bare. To do anything else is to be a Sucker – and, in their lexicon, that means anyone else but them.

  • grriverajr

    Many make the error that Literalists do who depend on self-interpretation, perhaps from a Bible that is either missing books or has a few too many (ie King James where inconvenient anti-divorce writings are left out, or the Book of Mormon where whole cloth was added). The Gift of Salvation can be denied – that is the essence of a gift. It can be refused. And if taken, can be thrown away. We can gain salvation through honest acceptance of Christ in our life. But remember those who remained outside, nashing their teeth and crying, “Lord, Lord!” Jesus knew them not. Why? Because they either refused the gift, accepted Christ dishonestly (you know, uttered the Jesus Prayer during an Alter Call but continued on in their sinful ways – Faith without works and all that) or turned their backs on Christ and the Gift of Salvation voluntarily cutting themselves off without Reconciliation before death. I know these are issues that divide many, as these are very inconvenient truths, and make it a bit more difficult to be a Christian. The path to Salvation IS narrow, with many stumbling blocks, the most insideous being wrongful, self-indulgent interpretations of His Holy Word.

  • ThomRaasio

    x
    There ARE people, to whom the BASICS don’t quite answer their deeper questions. The deeper questions are answered through the scriptures as we search for it as for “hid treasure” and “then” shall you find out the knowledge of God.
    Most denominations teach the BASICS, and that is wonderful. And for MOST that is ALL they ever need or want to understand about the kowledge of God. They don’t particularly care about knowing the “deep things of God”……..and I have NO CRITICISM of that position.
    There’s NO REASON to feel “defensive” and have to go on the attack to fend off something you obviously have never been taught from your preachers pulpit.
    Acts 17:11 says, “These were “more noble” than those in Thesslonica in that they recieved the word with all readiness of mind and THEN searched the scriptures DAILY whether these things be so.”
    If what I shared is NEW to you, before you decide to label the person as being out in LEFT FIELD somewhere, do your due diligence to SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES……whether these things be so.
    I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at what you find.

    • grriverajr

      ThomRaasio Common Sense in Uncommon Times.  Thank you.

  • ThomRaasio

    Because one does not go on beyond BASIC MATH does NOT impune their character, but it is a FACT that the person who goes on to “study” and “know” deeper and more comprehensive levels of MATH, does know more about the “topic” than the person who has only been taught BASIC math. The person who knows the higher levels of math are NOT out in left field.
    The same goes for knowing and understanding Bible Basics too.

  • ThomRaasio

    Evermyrtle ThomRaasio I NEVER accused you of being out in left field. That’s what YOU said about me.
    If I might illustrate a point perhaps we can get on the same page here.
    When we enter primary school, we learn the “basics” of reading, writing, and arithmetic. As we go one to higher grades, the classes become more “detailed”. The added DETAIL does NOT undermine the “basics” but further establishes it.
    Basic math moves on to Algerbra where adding A + B – 13 = C, which seems contrary, at first, to basic math, but it’s not. We then move on to Geometry, Trigonometry, and Calculus. All have their foundation in “basic” math

  • grriverajr

    A word of sympathetic adice – beware the self-search. Just like reading a vehicle operator manual will not stop you from crashing into a wall the first time out in a car, the Bible needs to be approached carefully lest one interpret wrongly and base your life on falsehoods. The best example of this is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible, the Camel and the Well. In this, it is said that it is easier for a camel to pass through the Eye of the Needle than for a rich man to get to Heaven. A literalist, or simply someone who reads for him or herself without any schooling in Theology, will wrongly assume that no rich men can get to Heaven. Let’s leave the fact that women are included in this, not just men, OK? Not even Literalists are that whack. But the Eye of the Needle was the nickname of a small opening in the wall that surrounded a well, which allowed people in but not camels. This opening keep the well clean from fouling by the camels. A small, determined camel could, if careful, navigate the Eye, and get to the water. So the proper reading of the Bible is that, if you ARE rich, you must be very careful with your salvation, and you CAN enter the Gates of Heaven. A rich man simply has many more stumbling blocks in his path over others not blinded by money. If you think of a sewing needle and a camel, you will miss a truth.

    • SandyTrank

      grriverajr Faith must firstly be anchored in the Finished Work of Christ and those that have to have every word defined by the Greek and Hebrew can analyze Scripture to death and totally negate the Holy Spirit’s intention. The wall is interesting; I’ve never heard that before but it makes perfect sense. I always understood that verse to say the rich can be saved but they must not put there faith and trust in their riches. The Lord said “whosoever” and that is something that sure doesn’t need to be misunderstood. Reading after good solid theologians and scholars can be a help but any can be wrong and we need to be able to use discernment. Great explanation!

      • grriverajr

        SandyTrank grriverajr Anyone who has ever been trapped in the clutches of a lawyer and an accountant for any length of time can attest to the old adage that “Figures lie and Liars figure”!  Honest discernment is the best that anyone can ask for in matters of this nature.  In my heart of hearts I believe that, if someone honestly and through prayer makes a mistake concerning Scriptutre (and who hasn’t done THAT at least once in their life) it probably won’t be held against you in the grand scheme of things, anyway.

        • SandyTrank

          grriverajr SandyTrank The Lord knows our hearts and even the most knowledgeable among us knows nothing compared to the inexhaustable Word of God. I agree, it’s Who we know, not how much we know as we grow in Him.

        • Evermyrtle

          grriverajr SandyTrank If GOD was not a forgiving GOD, I would be totally ruined, HE forgives me of my sins every  day as I strive every day not to commit a sin.

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank grriverajr The most wonderful thing about GOD, HE knows and understands what triggers our every word and every action. People many times condemn us because they do not know where we are coming from. GOD never makes that mistake.

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle SandyTrank grriverajr Right Myrtle, He is the ONLY One Who is qualified to judge our hearts. Humans only guess. We can judge their fruit whether good or evil but nobody can know a heart motive but God. Wasn’t it the Apostle Paul who said “it is a small thing that I be judged of you?” I can’t remember off the top of my head only the words spoken and I say Praise the Lord!!! No human can sentence us to Hell!!!

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle grriverajr SandyTrank We commit sins of ignorance every day and it is only the Grace of God and the shed Blood of the Lamb that covers us. It’s the sin we know we did we can ask forgiveness for and the Blood covers the rest. Can’t confess what we don’t know…

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle grriverajr HE tells us quite a few things about judging, which we like to talk about. If we read and study these scriptures we will know when we are in the clear with our judging. I believe the strongest statement is that we had better be careful of  judging anyone, as evil who is committing the same sin that we are committing, adn that happens, a lot..

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle SandyTrank grriverajr Yes, I agree. Judging fruit isn’t a critical accusation kind of thing and we can sometimes help someone struggling if they are open to it but if not we can always pray. The Bible says to help to restore such a one in a spirit of meekness else we fall into the same sin. When we have a good firm hold on the Atonement of Christ and His Worthiness and our pitiful unworthiness, it is easier to see that we are all equally sinful and must come to Christ the same way. The ground is level at the Cross. Its never good to point fingers.

  • grriverajr

    Sandy Trank has touched on something interesting.  Detractors of Christ have tried to make Christians stumble with such questions as, “but what about a native deep in the Amazon who has never had the knowledge of Jesus? Can they get to Heaven?” The answer is, “of course!” Those who are innocent of the knowledge of Jesus actually have an advantage in one respect – they cannot be condemed for denying Christ once they know the truth. Just like a newborn babe who dies in the crib as a days-old infant, Heaven is theirs. An adult, though, without the knowledge of Christ is judged on his or her standing with the community of which they lived. Are they righteous, in thier universe? Or were they evil in their remote village? It is not without coincidence that, over and over again throughout Holy Scripture, what is in your heart determines the truth of things. You can profess loudly, yet if your heart is black your words mean nothing.

  • ThomRaasio

    STUDY ON YOUR OWN. In the end YOU will know what the BIBLE says, and not just what Someone else says someone else says the Bible says.
    Read it like a PERSONAL LETTER to you from Father and don’t let anyone tell you it doesn’t say what it says and says what it doesn’t say.
    I promise you, you will learn to REJOICE in the PERSECUTION you will receive from the “religious” leaders who think they are doing God a service when they ask you to leave and not come back to their churches.
    He that will live GODLY in Christ Jesus, SHALL suffer “persecution” (which means to drive out from among). TRUTH still upsets “religiouos” leaders, just like it did in Jesus’ day.

  • ThomRaasio

    I know and have met MANY PASTORS (fine people all) who do their studying with commentaries, who, when you engage them in personal conversation, are NOT remotely interested in even talking about the Bible outside of a sunday school class or their church office. Many can quote other “authors” of commentaries and their opinions but FEW actually knew or could quote the Bible on various issues.
    That does NOT take away from them that they were FINE, WONDERFUL people, they WERE and ARE.
    But they were obviously “school trained” in a particular “denomination” thereby EXCLUDING any study or consideration of certain teachings, other denominations taught.

  • ThomRaasio

    One last note. This is true fact. They did a study/survey of men attending Bible Colleges and Seminaries to BECOME PREACHERS or PASTORS in the Southern states of the U.S.
    When asked “How much PERSONAL time do you spend STUDYING the Bible on your own? The average answer (are you ready for this) about 1-1/2 hour PER WEEK!!
    I could have fallen over backwards!!! I couldn’t get enough of reading and studying the Bible ON MY OWN and often spent 3 to 5 hours PER DAY absorbing all I could. I was instructed of the Lord NOT to use ANY COMMENTARIES in studying and use NO BIBLE with any notes or commentary other than a CENTER COLUMN REFERENCE. I got the Englismens GREEK Concordance and W.E. VINES Expository DICTIONARY of New Testament Words, and that is ALL I study the Bible with.

  • ThomRaasio

    I John 2: vs. 20 & 27 states. “YOU have an “annointing” from the Holy One and YOU know ALL THINGS.
    But that “annointing”, which you received of Him, dwells or abides or lives IN YOU and you NEED NOT that OTHER MEN teach you, but as that “same annointing” teaches you of ALL THINGS, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it (the annointing) has taught you, ye shall abide, live, or dwell, in him .
    Beware NOT of the “self search”, BEWARE the “theologian”.
    As it says in Acts 17:11…….”These were MORE NOBLE than those in Thesselonica (why?) because they RECEIVED THE WORD WITH ALL READINESS OF MIND………and THEN……….searched the scriptures DAILY whether these things be so.”

    • SandyTrank

      ThomRaasio The key to what you said is living and abiding in Him Jesus said apart from Me you can do nothing. Many pastors today don’t study to show themselves approved and go to pastors.com and get their Sunday messages from Rick Warren who as far as I am concerned, is no pastor but a hireling. There is a “calling” that many men don’t really have as they have no pastors heart to guard and protect the sheep he has from false doctrine and does not equip the saints as he is told to do. We cannot overlook the five fold ministry model the Apostle Paul revers to as Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher. All are called to equip the saints. We can’t always be where someone can give us Scripture or pray for us so it is imperative that we equip them to stand on their own in Christ,  knowing Christ for themselves as He is a Present Help in times of trouble. We do need all of the ministries that the Lord Himself has ordained but it is up to us to know and search the Scriptures to see if all they are saying is so. It is our responsibility to know them well enough to be able to discern Truth from the false. Anyone called in either of these callings will have a greater accountability to the Lord and we need to pray for them. If they teach false ways, they will have blood on their hands and that will be tragic for anyone.

      • Evermyrtle

        SandyTrank ThomRaasio Rick Warren is signing up with the wrong people, messing around with the Chrislam crowd. I do not know how deep in is in with them but there is a connection.To me this is very dangerous ground!!

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle SandyTrank ThomRaasio  Ha Ha Myrtle, I was just making a comment at the same time you were making this comment and I too was speaking of Rick Warren! Talk about great minds! lol Anyway, he has celebrated Easter Service’s with muslims stating we all have things in common. Well to me having things in common is wonderful but the bigger question is: Do WE have all these things in common with the Lord? If we have His Word as the Only Truth and we are Born Again believers, we do have and I am thankful for all my brothers and sisters in Christ. It seems every time I witness or discuss the Gospel with those in a false religion the same phrase pops up and that is “it seems we have more in common than what we disagree on.” More importantly I guess my point is do WE agree with Christ! Rick Warren is not a pastor, he is a hireling. He is a member of the CFR and he also kisses up to the UN and is pro One World Order.

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle ThomRaasio I think yu are saying we need to agree to disagree, That is the sensible thing to do.As individuals we will never agree on all things and many times we can both be right, only looking at the matter from a different angle. So, lets agree to disagree. Love ya, already!!! We are sisters in CHRIST and sisters to all Christians.

        • grriverajr

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle ThomRaasio One need only look at Islam itself.  Allah, depemnding on usage, is either Moon or God.  Why is that?  BECAUSE ISLAM IS BUT A SURVIVING PAGAN RELIGION.  It is the Moon God, which once Mohammed married The Moon God to the sword simply put to death the followers of the Sun God, the Wind God, you name it.  Just look to the symbol of their faith – a cresent moon.  Islam, other than a passing nod of respect towards Mary, has absolutely nothing in common with Christianity.  It is not the God of Issac, Jacob or Abraham – it is a pagan Moon God.

        • SandyTrank

          Evermyrtle SandyTrank ThomRaasio  Yes, but ONLY those things not directly opposed to the Lord. The last thing I want to do is to find myself fighting God…

        • SandyTrank

          grriverajr SandyTrank Evermyrtle ThomRaasio I totally agree. Their claim as I understand it is that they say they believe in Abraham and Jesus and that seems to satisfy men like Rick Warren but not to most people including unbelievers. I guess it’s not rocket science to me and back to “judging” we can ALL see the fruit of that devil.

        • Evermyrtle

          SandyTrank Evermyrtle ThomRaasio I will state my opinion but I won’t fight over it and I won’t change my mind unless the opposing one can prove they are right. I just let it pass! GOD only gave us the job of stating the truth, as did JESUS who spoke and allowed the drops fall wherever there was a place for them. I am not in the least dogmatic. If I think you are wrong I will not try to force you to change your mind, that is what I meant by agree  to agree. Of course that is only my opinion.

  • ThomRaasio

    grriverajr I’m assuming, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but you warn of the “self search”. I’m assuming you’re talking about studying the Bible on your own without going to Bible school or seminary or something like that, in deference to “looking inward at ones self”. On that assumption, I offer the following.
    God NEVER chose ANYONE from the Schools of the Prophets, in the Old Testament, as his called ones.
    Nor did he RECRUIT ANYONE from the Schools of the Sanhedren where they argued the TALMUD all day long and use them because of their depth of knowledge of the scriptures, but he chooses the WEAK and BEGGARLY elements of the world to confound the wise.

  • grriverajr

    My advice to beware is simple. Let us leave religion for a moment. Imagine that you are in court.  You can read the law. It’s there in black and white. You can take your self-taught knowledge to the judge. If you do this, you will either lose to someone or be in jail for the next 20 years. Let us take another example.  You want to make a meal but you don’t cook that often. You go on the Internet, and pull down a recipe. It’s all there in black and white, no problem.  Let’s just hope your dog is hungry, because even you won’t be able to stomach the results. THE POINT IS THIS – a self directed reading of ANYTHING, let alone the most important publication ever to grace Humanity, is fraught with peril. Could you have won in court? Maybe. Would your cousin have survived the operation? Your guess is as good as mine. Might the meal have been edible? Ask your grandma who has taken 30 years to perfect the same meal with dozens of disasters if you stand a chance. Do you REALLY want your Eternal Salvation taken from the Self Help? I think not. I simply say, be careful, and inquire of others more learned of you their opinion. It can only help.

    • SandyTrank

      grriverajr One example that comes to my mind and we are back to, rather kind of, to religion; when the purpose driven life first emerged, everyone loved it and many still do and Rick Warren was called America’s Pastor. We saw him on Fox often but not any more. He used every Bible translation ever written to support his purposeful lie and including those practicing witchcraft. It was a joke to those who saw right thru it but I have to wonder now as he celebrates “things in common” with muslims and has joint Easter Services with them. Talk about great minds?? Im joking, I just noticed Myrtle is commenting on Rick Warren too but I don’t know what. Anyway, purpose driven sucked in a lot of people and many of us thought it was “new.” It wasn’t because Charles Spurgeon dealt with this thing too and if we had followed him a bit closer we would have already known about this method of deceiving and gathering multiples for our “mega” churches. Point is in case I lost you is, we DO learn from others. The Lord by His Holy Spirit set up leadership in ministry and it was and is Apostle, Prophet, Teachers, Pastors and Evangelists. All to equip the saints.

  • jonash48

    @rriverajr:  I agree, isn’t that why we are told to, “Not forsake the assembling of ourselves together”? and that we are given the five-fold ministry of Apostle, Prophets, Pastors, Teacher, Evangelists and The Holy Spirit to teach us and help us to mature so we can teach others?

    • SandyTrank

      jonash48 Absolutely!! You are right on.

  • Bullfeathers

    is this the sole topic here 24/7 ????????????

    • SandyTrank

      Bullfeathers Sometimes it is. Most of us are Christians and nothing happens that the Lord does not know about and we watch as all events fall into place according to Scripture. This is a place where we can also encourage one another as we are supposed to do. As a Christian walks before Him 24/7, He is never out of any situation we face as Christians and Americans.

    • Evermyrtle

      Bullfeathers Can you think of a more legitimate subject. This about the CREATOR and the sustainer of this world and you too, want to kick HIM out?? You may think that can be don but since it beings to HIM HE is here to stay. HE is what HIS people like to talk about most. If you are against this talk stemming from our love and devotion to HIM, you are in the wrong place.

  • ThomRaasio

    Jesus always referred the Pharisees and the people to the SCRIPTURES while they were enamoured of the authors of the TALMUD, which were the COMMENTARIES of their day, and didn’t even refer directly to the scriptures as Jesus always did. That’s one of the reasons the people loved him and the Pharisees hated him.
    Jesus also never used the expression “I believe”. He ALWAYS said, “It is written”, or “What say the scriptures?” even stating the “scripture” CANNOT be broken.
    Beware the church leader that is always prefacing his / her comments with “I believe”……………..who cares what “you” believe…………the devils “believe”…………………what does Father say in his word? That’s what you want to be “correctly” quoting or responding with to keep everything on track.

    • Evermyrtle

      ThomRaasio I use the words “I believe” a lot, I believe, the entire “BOOK OF GOD” 
      That is different from saying, “I Know  the entire, “BOOK OF GOD!” because I have read it several times and study it every day I can not tell you every word in there. I would be lying to say that.
      There is an old hymn. I do not remember the name of it but it starts off with”
       I BELIEVE THE BIBLE, THE BLESSED WORD OF GOD,
       FOR LIFE UNTO IT’S PROMISES., I CLEAVE

      I BELIEVE IT POINTS TO PATHWAY HIS SAINTS AND MARTYRS ALL HAVE TROD.
      MY FATHER IS IT’S AUTHOR  AND I BELIEVE.
      YES I BELIEVE THE BLESSED WORD OF GOD, IT MARKS THE PATHWAY,
      HIS PEOPLE ALL HAVE TROD; THE STORY FROM CREATION, WAY THROUGH REVELATION
      BEARS PROOF  INSPIRATION AND I BELIEVE

      • SandyTrank

        Evermyrtle ThomRaasio   Right Myrtle! It’s not the “I believe” that is the problem, but what they say they believe. If what they believe is Scriptural, there is no problem. We can’t cut off what someone says because they say I Believe. Now when you cut them off is when they say “this is not in the Bible but” that’s when you quit listening but do what you can to point them back in the right direction. If a family stopped at your driveway and they were lost, you would point them in the right direction, how much more do we owe a Christian or one searching the right direction?

  • ThomRaasio

    This country, to some degree, is too enamoured with DEGREES. Our nation is RUN by the highest trained minds from Harvard and Columbia, and Yale…………..yet look at the MESS this country is in from RELYING on the COLLEGE TRAINED MIND that puts emphasis on obtaining the degree, and not the KNOWLEDGE. The DEGREE says to the outsider, “I have this knowledge because I have this “degree””, when all the while, that “degreed” person can be spun in circles by simple questions they can’t answer while the non-degreed person, one who never even went to Bible College, can respond readily with sound scriptures because they have been faithfully reading the BIBLE everyday (not commentaries) and therefore the only thing they know to respond with ARE the SCRIPTURES.

  • ThomRaasio

    grriverajr It’s important that we listen to the “pastors” and “preachers”. I’m not trying to take that point down in any way. What everyone needs to know, is if you are an average “kid” who can read, you can, and will be taught by the Holy Spirit as you read the written word.
    When I shared that the study survey showing men / women going to Christian Colleges and Seminaries, to become “PASTORS”, showed they spent an average of 1-1/2 hours PER WEEK in personal Bible study time, that is only 12.8 minutes a DAY, if they studied every day. That would mean a person with average inteligence, who had given their life to the Lord, and read the Bible for 30 minutes EVERY DAY, would be getting almost 3 times the amount of personal imput from the Holy Spirit.
    That would NOT diminish what the information the trained “Pastors” had learned or received, because truth is truth no matter what its quantity is, but it is NOT inconsistant with scripture to believe the person who studies the Bible 5 hours PER WEEK will know MORE than the person who spends only 1-1/2 hours a week in study.

  • Bullfeathers

    paul krugman  ny times brainiac =pure bs  —-obuma & crew sat around faculty lounge drooling over wesrern europe s  fantastic socialistic systems = might be book smart (at least can fake it) but soooooooooooooo lacking simple common sense..

    • Evermyrtle

      Bullfeathers Well, you know he is a busy man, needs his entertainment after working two jobs, (1) playing golf, (2) running for office. That takes a lot of work. You see laws have to be changed, and all sorts of things must be done to guarantee a win. Have a little sympathy for the man!!!

  • Bullfeathers

    I KNOW THERE’S A GOD..NO DOUBTS IN MY MIND…I don’t need to try and impress anyone about my bible knowledge…I’m not carrying guilt so heavy that I feel the need to convince others how righteous I am. I didn’t know this site was totally for that..

    • SandyTrank

      Bullfeathers There isn’t just A God but The God, there is only One. Christ said we can’t hide a candle under a bushel basket and we can’t. If the Love and Spirit of Christ burns within us, we cannot hide it even if we try ans we don’t because we don’t want to grieve the Holy Spirit. We are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. If people cannot see Christ in a person, something just isn’t quite right there. This site has the most polite and knowledgeable people I have seen yet. I have gone to other blogs and all you see if profanity and rude name calling. I’m not saying none of those here don’t lose it sometimes but this is the best site to discuss the issues we face as a Nation. As I said, the regular folk here are decent civil and many Christian people and anyone of like mind can join in and be accepted in the group here. No other site that I know of can one admit a consecrated walk with Christ and not get slammed for it in one way or another or just plain ignored. We get on all kinds of topics here that’s what makes it so unique. Enjoy it.

  • jonash48

    Bullfeathers: Jesus said even satan and the demons know there is a god. But, do you KNOW GOD is the question. Jesus came so we could be reconnected and have a personal relationship with Him. I hope you can and do have that or will have.  :)

  • jonash48

    @Frank: That last phrase,” …Who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit…” is the key, now, isn’t it?

  • Bullfeathers

    ya    God   has protected me from inside and out -over + over again…my younger yrs. must have been horrific for my “Holy Ghost”=Guardian Angel..  I figure I was to raise proper kids = did that proudly (w/ his help & a simple, but pretty, copy of the Ten Commandments hanging on the bathroom wall ) a bathroom they all used …Nothing ever pounded into their heads – just a little note to help guide.  Wish everyone would try it —I had some printed up couple yrs ago and donated them to the Salvation Army 1,000 of them..I’m 69 and have no 401k or the like , so it was n’t  a cheap trick.  I really hope folks w/ kids put them to use.

    • SandyTrank

      Bullfeathers Just wondering where in the Bible you found Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit is a guardian angel? I am a few years younger than you and I don’t have a 401K either. I ended up a single mom raising 4 children for the largest part of their lives.. I lived Christ before them after being Born Again and took them to church to hear the Gospel and they all know it but only two chose to serve the Lord and are raising their children in the Lord as well. My children needed more than a note bur Proverbs 22:15.

  • Bullfeathers

    I’ve never read the bible & have no intention of doing so ( kinda’ suspect it’s been fouled by man over the centuries , like so many other things)  Doesn’t change or lower my status , at least I’m very pleased with Gods blessings here..I don’t need big $ to be blessed..Reading the bible really ain’t gonna’ do much for some of us   God knows what’s inside…

    • SandyTrank

      Bullfeathers That is why you don’t know the difference between the Holy Spirit and a guardian angel. Yes, God is a God of mercy and blessing but don’t be so foolish to mistake His Blessing for His Approval of you. You are right, He does see inside and He also see’s that you are not interested in His Word. Before I knew Christ as my Saviour, I had the same thought; raise them and let them decide what they believe. The Bible says to train up a child in the Way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. How do you know you are going to Heaven? The Bible tells us how that can happen. We are a three part being as God made us in His Image. We are body, soul and spirit and our spirit is eternal as His is and will live together somewhere, Heaven or Hell. Its’ your choice to make but to “assume” Heaven is our home is dangerous thinking. The Bible tells us all that we need to know however imperfect the translation may be, it’s good enough to get you saved and on your way to Heaven. It is God’s love letter to His Creation but we can’t know it if we don’t read it. I hope you will rethink it. :)

      • SandyTrank

        Bullfeathers  Sorry…and will live FOREVER somewhere.

  • Bullfeathers

    all kids tend to be rebels while trying to find their selves = I sure did….I thought it best not to shove anything at them too hard….I ‘m very sure that ” little note ” had real positive results….= responsible adults that anyone would welcome to live next door…no druggies-no jail birds-no perverts.. I don’t think of myself as being a “wonder” dad .. just tried to instill common sense…I think everyone has a “guardian angel” God has to be a very busy being , after all =    hey   works for me & real well too.

  • Bullfeathers

    bs   ….ur better than me   right….bs

  • MichaelSee

    I guess they won’t allow invitrio fertilization in North Dakota now because for every viable “test tube baby” implanted there are 3-4 (or more) embryos that will be discarded or frozen. The frozen embryos CAN be emplanted in another woman desiring to become pregnant, but are most often discarded because of mantenance costs.  Children resulting from a frozen embryo are called “snowflake” children.

    • SandyTrank

      MichaelSee I have always had a problem with all the extra’s they create. I think it’s only necessary to do one at a time, otherwise they discard human life and it’s murder. If I had ever needed it, I wouldn’t want my babies planted in someone else and I think a lot of men feel the same way. If they use three with each treatment, fine but they should never make more than they plan to use.

    • Evermyrtle

      MichaelSee Why go to all this expense, weird practices and trouble when there area thousands little children in orphanages just waiting to be adopted???

      • MichaelSee

        Evermyrtle MichaelSee Because most men and women want their own (genetically) children. Many women can’t get pregnant, due to many factors, so they resort to invitrio fertilization and implantation. Having a “snowflake baby” or adoption is at best a second-best choice for them.

        • SandyTrank

          MichaelSee Evermyrtle  Only because abortion has limited the precious babies available. If those babies had been born and available tor those who could not have their own children, it wouldn’t have been necessary. Surrogate’s were around for years for example Hagar.

  • BlackSunshine84

    I wish my state was as bold.

    • MichaelSSmith

      BlackSunshine84 Don’t you mean as stupid

      • grriverajr

        MichaelSSmith BlackSunshine84 Ah, the personal, ad hominim attack.   The first choice of the left.  Don’t argue the facts – just insult.

  • nohate

    These fools missed the boat by not including in their definition that corporations are not people and therefore have no right to contribute to political campaigns. What a waste of legislative time….

    • waitingforjc

      nohate So — “nohate” — what a hateful comment.  This is not a “corporation” or a “political campaign”.  Get your facts straight before criticizing.

      • nohate

        waitingforjc nohate Not hateful in the least. I simply observe that our elected officials waste a lot of time and energy getting the job half done. They could easily define personhood to exclude corporations as that is intimately tied to current issues that have much more import to society than to define that an embryo is a human to prevent an abortion. So again I say: what a waste of legislative time.

        • ChillaKilla

          Perhaps

        • ChillaKilla

          Perhaps your mother should have defined you as a worthless embryo when you were hatched. Had that happened we would not have the unpleasant duty of dealing with your inane comments.

        • MichaelSee

          nohate waitingforjc Corporations are legally defined as persons. That is the “corp” in Corporation – as in corpus delecti (pardon the spelling on that last item). They could pass a law forbidding corporate political contributions, but I don’t think any politician is going to shut-off the money tap for themselves. It’s a “pigs at the trough” mindset.